1. ccu
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  3. 24-05-2016 22:00
This has been posted in a few places, probably similar to a few folks opinion/view...

"On June 23rd, I am expected to make one of the most important decisions in my life which could affect my children and grandchildren in a way I don’t even understand yet. I am an average guy with a family, a house, and a normal lifestyle. I am sort of Joe average. Some people have asked me recently about how I’m voting, mainly because they don’t know themselves and want another view or opinion. I’ve actually been quite interested in the opportunity to vote in the referendum and I’ve done some research and a lot of thinking and I know how I’m going to vote and why.

I am however, concerned about the broadcasting from our elected government. They also know what they want and why but we, the people, need our government to provide us with a balanced view so we, the people, can make our own mind up. For that to happen, we need to understand all the good points, and all the bad points. At the moment, I can understand why some people are gripped by fear that the world will end if we leave the EU.

But will it?

Well, I see 3 main areas, which I thought about. Political, economic and immigration.

Before I go any further, I have already accepted one thing. Any change will result in good things and not so good things. I can’t think of one example, which has changed, which hasn’t created some benefits and burdens.

Let’s get the easy one’s out of the way….

Political. – As a UK citizen, I want my laws determined by the MP’s we elected as a democracy should be. Our Lords are the regulators of the decisions made in the commons and I’m good with that. What I don’t want are laws imposed on me by people who weren’t elected and are trying to find a “One size fits all” solution to many different countries who all have different tolerances, expectations and cultures.

Of all of the imposed laws from the EU, I can live without a law that stipulates that cucumbers must not have a bend in excess of 10 degrees. Some of our politicians quite fancy a career in the EU after their own political career has come to and end in the UK and this is the reason why I think some of them are so keen to stay.

Economic – This is where I see, and accept, that things will be a little worse before they get better. Let’s get one thing clear though. Big business leaders only want one thing. More sales and bigger profits. That’s not wrong, it’s their job, and what shareholders expect. Quite simply, if the companies they’re running don’t make more money every year, they lose their job.

Imagine owning the only supermarket in a town where for the past 10 years, more and more people have come to live there and for the next 10 years, more and more people will arrive. If you owned that supermarket, you’d be rubbing your hands together. Now imagine that someone said that no more houses could be built and some people had to leave. You wouldn’t want that to happen so would disagree. And that’s what the impact will be, less people spending less money is not good for business. You can’t blame them for voting for Remain, but they’re only concerned about themselves.

I’ve also thought about the impact on house prices and rent. In 2000, I remember renting a massive house while I was in between house moves. The rent was £750 per month. Since the bulk addition of several European counties in 2004, rents have consistently increased beyond the rate of inflation. This is easy to understand, more people, not the equal number of more house increases competition for housing and increased rents. Increased rents mean better profits for landlords so people start to buy houses to rent out. Competition for houses increases which increases house prices.

And we all think this is great that the house some of us bought in the 90’s is now worth 3 times what we bought it for, we’re rich! But then I think of my children who can’t afford to buy a house now and I sometimes wonder whether they ever will. I was chatting to a guy at work last week who at the age of 32 had bought his first modest house with a 30 year mortgage. He was so pleased. But that doesn’t sit with me right. I bought my house (3 bed semi) when I was 22 with a 5% deposit and 3.5 times my salary. If the average salary is £22k, £77k doesn’t buy you anything now.

It might be an unpopular thought, but I want house prices to come down so my children can buy a 3 bed semi with a 5% deposit for 3.5 times their salary. And house prices will only come down if there is less competition and more houses built. I’m afraid you can’t achieve that by staying in the EU with an unlimited amount of potential people able to live and work here.

Also, on an economic front, there are too many people telling us that our economy will fall dramatically as we’ll have to negotiate new trade agreements with all the current EU countries. And let’s not forget Obama telling us all that we’ll be at the back of the queue with a trade deal with the USA.

Firstly, we’re a bigger importer than exporter, it’s always been that way. We buy more than we sell so therefore our buying power is more important than our selling power. For sure, some UK goods might be less attractive if import taxes are imposed on them from the EU if we leave but our customer is the world.

We have some of the most prestigious brands in the world. In no particular order, the one’s which come to mind are JCB, Rolls Royce, Burberry, Hotpoint, HSBC, Barclays, Tesco etc etc. I think we can confidently go global. Why do we want the EU to negotiate on our behalf?

And now for immigration. I have no idea why we’re all afraid to even bring up the subject but it does have a big impact and affects us all personally, socially and economically.

Over the past 12 years, since our immigration started to boom, I’ve met a lot of people who have moved to the UK to live and work. In general, I find the people I’ve met to be honest, hard working people with families who intend to make the most of the opportunity of living and working in the UK.

Our service industry is better for it, with many EU migrants choosing to work in many different sectors from coffee shops, to supermarkets. We’ve benefitted from many skills including the main building trades. Many trained nurses and doctors have joined our NHS. No doubt many more have arrived who have filled a skills gap we just don’t have and we, as a society have and are benefitting.

But there’s a problem that comes with this.

As a UK citizen, my personal belief is that the UK is the most attractive country in the EU. If you create a law that says that any citizen can freely choose where in the EU they can live and work, many will naturally choose to move to what they believe will give them the best opportunity to better themselves. Nothing wrong with that, it’s completely normal behaviour.

But if that country does not invest in infrastructure and services at the same rate of population growth two things happen. Things go up in price e.g. houses. And services become overstreched e.g. Doctors, schools, hospitals, roads etc.

The other thing I have an issue with is the type of immigration we have. I am absolutely convinced that we need immigration to thrive and prosper. Not just to ensure we have the right skills but also to make our society richer.

OK, so I can have my car hand washed for £3 just about anywhere now but how many unskilled people do we really need? I don’t think we need any. We have around 2 million of them sitting at home most days looking for a job. The broader problem is that we have created a society that believes not working is a choice and if they can’t be an instant celebrity, they refuse to work for minimum wage. We could solve that problem if we really wanted to.

I also see communities within communities. There are street’s I walk down now that I used to walk down 12 years ago where I only ever hear foreign languages being spoken and European shops selling European goods to European people. That doesn’t feel like an integrated society and I don’t really like it.

I want immigration, but I want to attract people from all over the world who have skills we need and who can add value to the place I live and work. I want those people to choose to come here because they like the values we live by, and want to be part of it.

I also don’t like the laws which are imposed on us that says we have to pay all EU immigrants the same social security benefits as UK citizens when we have no control over where that money is spent. At least the 2 million people sitting at home claiming job seekers allowance are spending that money here, benefitting our own economy but I can’t get my head around how a working father from the EU can claim working families tax credits, family allowance, income support and send as much back to his family in his native country as he chooses. When the minimum wage in the UK is 10 times higher than some eastern European countries and benefits are higher, how can we allow that money to be used in another economy where the cost of living is a fraction of the UK?

Imagine being a call handler in a call centre, a pretty average job on £18k to £20k a year. Now imagine another country you could move to, to do the same job for £200k a year. It’s an opportunity not to be missed. You’d live as cheaply as possible and send every spare penny home.

There are many people who are doing just that in the UAE. But the UAE are a growing country who need and want our skills. They’ve already stated to create laws themselves to ensure emirate people are at the front of the queue for jobs and skills. And there’s no hand outs or public services, everything is private sector and when you have no work, it’s goodbye.

I completely understand why Churchill had his vision for a “United States of Europe” after world war two. When created, the common market was brilliant and has served us well over the decades. But nothing lasts forever and things change.

I don’t remember agreeing to or voting for all the things which have been imposed on me. And I certainly don’t like what’s ahead of me either.

So on balance I’m voting to leave the EU. I accept it will have an economic impact. My house may reduce in value, some people may lose their jobs, the £ may fall in value so holidays might cost a bit more.

But if my children can buy a house and pay off a mortgage within their working life, if their children can go to a school that they choose, if I can get an appointment at the doctors or hospital treatment and not sit in hours of traffic every day then I’ll be happy with that.

And in the future, when the UK is back to being the greatest country in the world that attracts the most talented people from all over the world who create the industries and brands that create job opportunities for the future generations, I can look back and feel that I did the right thing.

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You reap what you sow, so all you Brexiters dont start crying when it all goes t_ts up with job losses, higher prices, increased taxation. Make no mistake, the NHS will be no better off in the hands of Gove, Johnson and IDS as the extra millions saved by a Brexit will be spent to make the rich richer and not a health service that they have helped destroy ver the last few years.. I guess most people who voted Brexit did so because of Immigration issues and had no regard for the economy for which the Brexit Campaign have no real plan. Also I cant wait to see what plan is hatched to dramatically cut immigration at a stroke. The Labour Brexiter has helped consign the UK to a Government who will be even more right wing headed by Boris Johnson who will over see the breakup of the UK. Cameron is culpable in this sorry mess and has paid the price with his job, quite rightly.. The only salvation is to get rid of Corbyn and vote out this Tory government which is rotten to the core.
Christ you have listed every facebook stereotype there... I didn't vote out for immigration.... I voted out to become a self governing country.... to control our own legal and political system, to control our own economy and trade deals with the global economy, to control our own armed services as well as to control our own borders. There is bound to be a short term economic shock as all of the bed wetters are out in force but that will normalise over the next few months. For me this referendum was about the right to self govern... that is it should be the elected British government that makes major decisions in British interest. At the next election if you don't like the policies of one party you don't have to vote for them or you can vote out the existing government once every 5 years if they screw things up... that is the whole point... at least now there is accountability and we as an electorate get the chance to vote every 5 years on matters crucial to Britain. The EU is a fundamentally corrupt, inefficient, inept organisation that has prevented us capitalising on a global economy for a generation with it's inward looking protectionist view of free world trade... we are now free to fully take advantage of fast growing global economies outside the EU. There is no point staying in a broken system just because you are scared of the consequences of leaving... with risk there is opportunity. It is up to us as an electorate to make sure our national governments don't screw the opportunity up... but if they do we can always vote the decision makers out... something we were unable to do as a country in the EU. The first couple of years might be bumpy, but nowhere near as bad as the doom mongers are predicting, and then we are free to re-position our selves in the global economy. Stop the whining and accept that you were outvoted... democracy means you sometimes get what you don't want. If you can't see your future in an independent UK then you have two years to use your freedom of movement right and move to another EU country... I hear Romania is lovely.
  1. 24-06-2016 14:17
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I’ll be voting for Farage and I couldn’t care less about his other policies. He has one for this election and that’s what we’re voting on.
  1. 17-05-2019 16:36
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I'm really trying to keep out of this debate but the remainers are really starting to sound/act like our reluctant custodians/trust or Carlisle City Council... Backward thinking dinosaurs, unable to let go, afraid of or against change!
  1. 03-09-2019 09:42
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Union Flag and bunting at the ready to put out on Friday, plus a few fireworks to set off at 11pm.
  1. 27-01-2020 17:10
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Saved you a walk lads

  1. 30-01-2020 16:32
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Why is anyone surprised that the EU is playing hardball? They didn't ask us to leave.

They’re playing hardball because once we depart it will start crumbling. Germany and France can’t run it without us.

They’re absolutely shit scared (Not that they’d admit in public naturally) we’re leaving...
  1. 18-11-2017 21:17
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I’m a Leave voter, but I’ve got no problem with anyone who’s moved here, got a job/studies at Uni, pays taxes etc, that’s the way of the world. Plenty Brits do similar around the World!

And it’s perfectly acceptable to me, that these folk will remain here. They moved when it was all above board. And likewise, our citizens around Europe will get the same treatment.

What I did vote for, was that when our tie is cut, we regain control of our Borders, Security, Laws etc, and do things for ourselves. I’ve no problem with any genuine Asylum seeker. The problem is in 99% of cases, there’s no way we’re the first safe haven they’ve reached! The open borders of Europe have seen people movement on an unprecedented scale this century, many unchecked, dangerous people amongst this tide.

This Country has been dragged down and it’s about time it was sorted out. Yes, it’ll take time, yes there’ll be bumps along the way, but it’ll be our Country once again, free from unelected politicians from the likes of Luxembourg making decisions for us.

It’s become almost frowned upon to be Patriotic, to love your Country. Why? What’s wrong with having a bit of pride in your flag and anthem? Boils my piss when folk deem you racist for doing so! Racist? Not likely...

The EU is slowly sinking ship, in years to come, folk will look back and go ‘Britain was right, wish we had’...

Could one of you Remainers spell out the reasons why you think we should stay in the EU? I’m genuinely interested.


A senile little Englander!
  1. 08-12-2017 10:03
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So Corbyn obeys his party but chooses to completely ignore the electorate.What a pathetic individual this guy is.

Don't know where brexiteers get this won/loss toss from, it was and still is an advisory vote with no defined win/lose parameters. It was a litmus test of public opinion.
As for "completely ignoring the electorate", the the electorate that answered definitively were divided down the middle. You appear to be blinkered by your proclivities and unable to see the result in it's wider context of an "advisory vote".
17.4 million said leave
16.1 million said remain
13.0 million said "don't know" (abstained)

(18.9 million didn't have a say)

Can we also stop calling it a People’s Vote-it’s actually a second referendum to satisfy those who didn’t agree with first result.

Agreed it is a second referendum but to say it's simply "because to satisfy those that don't agree" is rather disingenuous. It's another advisory vote, with a public in theory having a further two years of experience, knowledge and learning to better understand what the ramifications actually are. Opinions change, especially after being better informed.

How would you react if one of your boards voted for something vaguely defined 6-5 (after a equally close split shareholder vote) and kept ploughing on regardless after 22 months of negative feedback, failing negotiations, due diligence and sound information indicating that it's not in the interests of the company to continue on that path. Is it my way or the high way or put is it back to the board or indeed the shareholders for the OK to continue the self destruct?
  1. 25-02-2019 20:48
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New referendum.
1st question: in our out
2nd question: mays deal or no deal

Pretty sure we've already had a vote on the first question and we votes to leave. Regardless of whether people are willing to accept that maybe this country doesn't want anything to do with the corrupt EU, the fact of the matter is that we don't. The snowflakes are sat at home shivering scared of the unknown because all they've known is this invisible reliance on the EU.

Let's bugger off, become a sovereign state start the demise of one of the biggest dictatorships on the planet.

Betraying the public vote simply because they've tried and it seems too hard just isn't acceptable.

But I suppose it's more important that the snowflakes and remoaners can jet off to Italy on their gap years without having to go through the trouble of getting a visa than it is for our country to stand up for itself and stop being controlled by a bunch of corrupt unelected folk in the EU.
  1. 27-05-2019 08:56
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Please tell me you don’t think the cleaner should be on a par with the CEO!!In the real world, pay demarcation died with the shipyards.I don’t think anyone disagrees everyone deserves a decent wage-a living wage.

I don't think it should be exactly on a par, but I think everyone should get a fair wage for the work they do. Let's be generous and assume that every CEO works twice as hard as someone at entry level in their company. At most, the CEO should be getting paid twice of what their lowest paid employees get.

You've made money because of all the hard work you put into your businesses, fair enough. But a lot of other people have worked just as hard as you have in making that possible. Why don't they deserve an equal share of your profits, why do they just deserve a living wage for their hard work but you think you deserve more for your hard work?

Why should somebody who started a business, a one man band, maybe mortgaged their house and risked everything, then became sucessful through long hours and hard work, missing out on family time and making other sacrifices not enjoy the lions share of the results of that hard work, seems deeply unfair to me.
  1. 29-07-2019 19:01
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The number of records he has set is phenomenal. First PM to lose his majority live on TV, 7 motions rejected, 3 summonses to the Ethics committee, lost over 20 MPs outside a time of war.

Blue Cross have now been given by MinHealth a list of imported medicines they think could be in short supply after Brexit, so they are sending out packs to gold and platinum members. Mine arrived yesterday.

Boris has been fired from the Spectator, Tory Party Vice Chairman, Tory Party shadow arts minster, lied to the people of London, lied to the queen, cheated on his wife and mistress, lied about funds for the NHS and his biggest backer is making hundreds of millions betting against him. Brilliant, keep going, Boris! Hysterical

Glad you’ve got your stash of viagra fully topped up!
  1. 30-09-2019 20:05
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Getting ready with a few appropriate beers for an appropriate occasion.

  1. 31-01-2020 21:31
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When I look to the future I always think 'I wish we were more like Chile.' FFS.
That's not what I'm saying obviously... but think about it... if a country like Chile can massively outperform the EU on negotiating trade deals then surely that says it all? Compared to Chile we should have no problem setting up our own preferential trade deals across the globe.

Face it the EU is inept at negotiating trade deals... it can't get 27 members and all of the region's within them to agree... particularly when several states, like France and Italy, are protectionist to the core. The EU is a protectionist block. Protectionism never ends well history teaches us.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
  1. 24-06-2018 20:25
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Friday, decision day for the vicars daughter. The brexit people voted or a fudge.

And what is that? as they were no options on the Ballett. Is that a hard Brexit ? is it a Soft Brexit ?. As just because 51% voted to leave it doesn't mean 51% of people want a hard Brexit.

The question on the slip was a short one. Leave the EU or Remain. Therefore it’s all quite simple what should happen...

  1. 02-07-2018 12:11
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Absolutely zero problem with any migrant who comes to work and contribute to the economy. From the most skilled surgeon to the folk who pick crops. If they come with good intentions, welcome.

A big problem with any migrant who’s traipsed across Europe, past several ‘safe’ countries, all because our system pays out more. No thanks.

There is absolutely nothing wrong in wanting your own country to be able to control its own Borders. In these times of increased security levels, it’s even more important. I’ve crossed countless Borders in Europe without being asked to stop, let alone show a Passport. That isn’t right. Huge swathes of ‘refugees’ have disappeared once they hit EU land. Absolutely crazy!

Sadly in these times I’m probably branded racist for having such views...

Non-eu citizens aren't entitled to benefits whilst they still have conditions of their status in the country, so basically until they become British citizens.

Asylum seekers have access to absolutely [censored] all whilst they case is being considered and only around half of cases get approved for asylum.

There's conditions on EU citizens accessing welfare if they are out of work and I think we can deport them if they are out of work for more than 3 months


Can't agree with you in the checks at borders, before the vote I was a supporter of further integration with the EU and hopefully some form of federalisation.

None of your views are racist, it would only be if you disagreed with people coming here down to their nationality, race or ethnicity that you would be, simply wanting to control borders isn't.

"before the vote I was a supporter of further integration with the EU and hopefully some form of federalisation"

That was the main part of me wanting to get out of the EU, I like us to have our own identity as a nation and this idea you have would eventually have eroded away our past to a footnote in history.

It wouldn't have though would it. The USA is a federation of states, each has its own identity which they are all proud of.

Probably going to have to accept at some point that the days of the empire are well and truly behind us.

The USA is nothing like Europe, the USA expanded mainly in the early 1800's when Thomas Jefferson bought 500,000 square miles of land in the Louisiana purchase linking the Atlantic with the Pacific, the only people living on that land being the indigenous Indians, so they expanded their territories with mainly fellow Americans.

Of course the USA has been built on immigration, but has happened a lot more organically than the EU.

Europe is a block of countries with their own individual cultures, languages and economies.

The people coming here from Eastern Europe are here because a poor wage here is a good wage in Romania.

Youth unemployment in Southern Europe is a damning indictment of the way the EU treats it's citizens and a perfect example why we would be better out of it.
  1. 21-09-2018 19:31
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Can’t help feeling that today was either a Love Actually moment or something more akin to Suez-I rather like Theresa when she gets angry and she is certainly pissed off at the moment.The veil came off today and it was good to see a bit of unadulterated steel and resolve.

We should remind all that we are British first and foremost,proud of it, and it’s no coincidence that many Europeans flock here-we are a fantastic country which is tolerant and where effort is rewarded.Too often, we look at ourselves and wish we were somewhere better-something Corbyn drills into his disciples with his fixation with socialist regimes.

We should also remind them that we have sorted out the last two World wars that were started by themselves.Precisely why they all cling to their broken Union-fear of another war because of their historic differences.
  1. 21-09-2018 19:39
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We've been in power for 8 years, we have failed by every measure economic indicator, David Cameron was called the worst British Prime Minister ever by Obama, child mortality is rising, wages have fallen by over 10% but either Clegg or Corbyn is to blame. Pathetic. Systematic failure as a culture excused by a tax dodging media
  1. 05-12-2018 18:09
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1,269,501 more people voted to leave the EU than voted remain.

[censored] percentages

[censored] what regions voted for

[censored] what diffent citys Voted for

[censored] what a couple of tin pot Countries voted for

This is what a Million people Look like


Time politicians and twiney arsed remainers gave us a bit more respect and carry out and support on what we voted instead of childish spoiling tactics at every single oppertunity .

Your a bigger danger to the country than a no deal atm .
  1. 04-02-2019 19:25
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Its clear to see to anyone with an ounce of intelligence these [censored] are now shitting it at the thought of us going with no deal .
Time for the surrender monkeys on our side to get behind leaving and sit back and watch the EU cave in .
  1. 06-02-2019 17:19
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Watching the London Remainer based news channels this morning mainly on about the President of the USA, Donald Trump. You ad Sadiq Khan saying he should not be here and various other guests spouting off about him interfering in UK politics there was not one mention of Obama saying we would be at the back of the queue if we voted for Brexit. Was that not the same and not one mention of the real reason he is here to commemorate the 75th anniversary of the d day landings. What is it with London telling the rest of the country it knows better.
  1. 02-06-2019 14:08
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I don't understand how the world has gone so Liberal - Trump wants to build a wall to stop illegal Mexicans getting into the country and hurting their economy, so what?

It is no different to the UK receiving thousands of immigrants in boats and 'stepping up' our coastal defences to stop them getting here and turn them around as they shouldn't be here and they are risking young childrens lives as well most of the time risking the trip.

How on earth can it be wrong to tighten up your border defences for any country in the world with the way terrorism currently is?

Good on Trump to have the bollocks to tackle the situation, and is Mexico that 'war torn' that the people have to get out of there asap?
  1. 02-06-2019 14:21
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Kessler I would love to live in your world, I really would, but unfortunately it's not going to happen..

Businesses are run for profit and, whilst some owners may be really greedy horrible people, grabbing the last penny for themselves, there are also plenty of decent business owners about. To set up and run a business takes guts, they shoulder risks and normally have to work incredibly hard in the beginning to get that business off the ground. They tend to do that because they believe in their business and look forward to the profits in the longer term. Very few owners are so altruistic that they set up a business without expecting profits for themselves. For that sort of model you are looking to a communist state.

Secondly the laws of supply and demand. If a firm wants a cleaner, it's a job that many people can do, on the whole there isn't a shortage of cleaners (although post Brexit who knows). Good CEO's are a much rarer breed, there isn't that many about, therefore businesses have to pay more to attract one that can do the job.
  1. 30-07-2019 09:42
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I've developed a simple template to help speed up responses on this thread:

Post 1:
(insert name of prominent Conservative) did (insert policy) causing (insert %) impact to (insert number of people)

(Insert link to any old website)

Post 2:
(insert name of prominent Labour politican) did (insert policy) causing (insert %) impact to (insert number of people)

(Insert link to any old website)
  1. 30-07-2019 16:47
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It's a right carry-on, this Brexit malarkey.

I hate that word, Brexit: a stupid idiot's word to describe something nobody understands. Nobody understands it or knows anything about it. Hence it is a perfect opportunity for folk to spout bullsh1te and for charlatans to prosper.

Also an opportunity for the pack of unprincipled opportunist jackals we have in government to strut their obnoxious toffee-nosed stuff while the pathetic opposition weeps and wails and all the little Hitlers come out of the woodwork with their bar-room half-baked b0llocks.

Personally I'm ambivalent on the "EU". I believe that people should come together, not move apart, and that there is a lot to be said for the old idea of a "United States of Europe" spoken of by the likes of Churchill. However, people have now forgotten about the World Wars and have grown complacent; and there are serious concerns about our sovereignty and freedom and being tied into a problematic bureaucracy which I share with many.

But nobody has a clue really.

What Churchill did say:

“We have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked but not combined. We are interested and associated but not absorbed. If Britain must choose between Europe and the open sea, she must always choose the open sea.”
  1. 31-08-2019 17:50
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Do you remember the Millenium bug? We were all due to burn in hell and our world would come crashing down........
.......oh nothing happened....sorry BBC.

Life will continue the same on 1st November so please stop being idiots and listening to second rate politicians with their own agenda.
  1. 01-09-2019 17:29
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I’m afraid I agree with Alan.Swinson is yet another in the long list of jocks telling us all we are stupid and put our cross in the wrong box.

Here’s my list-I’ve met them all

-Goodwin-destroyed the economy
-Cummings-destroyed the economy
-Darling-destroyed the economy
-Brown-‘saved the world’after abolishing ‘boom and bust’
-Salmond-alleged sex fiend
-Wee nippy-communist from Ayrshire
-the odious little SNP toad in the House with the ill fitting suit-irrelevant

We also have a Scottish court overstepping the mark-as will be proven this week.

The last decent Scottish politician John Smith sadly died years ago

We could do with a break from all this amazing intelligence north of the border
  1. 15-09-2019 20:09
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If they'd gone to the eu back in the day and said let's do a Norway it would be done. But the tories couldn't agree on what they wanted so we got inaction and weak leadership.

Maybe now we'll get some of those awful German construction jobs, how terrible would that be?

That’s living all right.
  1. 05-10-2019 10:42
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Nobody's giving any factual detail on how we will be better off out especially via a no deal exit. Sure the EU is full of flaws but if you reflect and don't let emotions take over, how will we be better off, how will our economy benefit with a hard exit? Nobody is saying because they can't. Calm heads needed not Boris and his unelected spin doctor muddying the waters and playing on peoples fears like Garage does.

Shanks and Bigfoot weren’t bad but your right on the whole it’s a shit genre of music.
  1. 10-10-2019 15:13
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Goodbye to the European Parliament, that pointless, expensive talking-shop. I won't miss Brussels and Strasbourg with their dodgy accounting, their red tape and stagnation, and I definitely won't miss that poxy European flag.

For the first time in over 45 years, we're on our own. It`ll be difficult at times, there are always ups and downs when you set out on a new course.

But if the UK can make it work, as I believe we will, then one day we`ll look across to Europe and wonder why we ever doubted ourselves.
  1. 31-01-2020 08:35
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Site Admin
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The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland!
  1. 31-01-2020 23:00
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Meanwhile, Nissan announces the closure of their Barcelona plant, making thousands of Spanish workers redundant. The work is transferring to their Sunderland plant, securing their future. Isn't Brexit great.
  1. 28-05-2020 12:54
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Do you believe there should be no political parties then Barry? Should each MP have some sort of local vote before every parliamentary decision is made? That would slow the democratic process a bit wouldn't it? In our system, yes, you are voting for an individual, but you are also voting for the party that individual is associated with, you are voting to follow their manifesto. If their manifesto contains stuff you don't agree with, don't vote for them. A party who wins the most seats (not the highest number of votes) has the mandate to carry out it's manifesto commitments, you have given them that right. If you disagree with your MP, tough, he follows (generally) the party line.

This EU referendum is nothing at all to do with being in or out of Europe, it is about control of the Conservative party. One bloke and his mates have taken one side, so his rival and his mates have taken the other, whether they believe in the respective positions or not.

The appallingly racist dogma of one side though should be what decides most right minded people which way to vote. It is nothing to do with migrants from Italy, France or Germany that bothers these deplorable individuals, it is anybody who has a different skin tone from themselves. There is no point trying to say anything different, look at Farage's recent poster, look at Britain First's facebook page. This is whipping up millions of the most ignorant people in this society into a frenzy (aided and abetted by the right wing papers) of hatred for Muslims in the main, but almost anybody of a different colour. Mostly those ignorant prople can't see the difference between migrants from the EU and migrants from anywhere else, they just see them all as black people coming over here and stealing our jobs and claiming all our benefits.

I have to tell you that if you are so shit at your job that somebody with no English language skills, no contacts and no experience of working in this country can come over and take your job you don't deserve to ever work again. And have you not ever noticed the irony about them stealing all our jobs and claiming all our benefits?
  1. 20-06-2016 10:31
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Kangshung, Moorlad. Finally people that speak sense. Something this debate has so dearly been missing.

Unfortunately it's the ignorant masses who dance to Farage's tune that could vote us out.

Moorlad your absolutely right about the stirring up of hate against anybody if a different colour. My wife is 1/4 Pakistani from her dad's side. A couple of years back she was out with friends and some YOB told her to 'go back to her own country'. She was born in Wolverhampton due to her dad being stationed at Cosford, 1 of the many bases he was at in his 25 years in the RAF. And yet some absolute fuckwit thought that because her skin was darker than his it meant she was from another country. To be fair she chinned him.

The current campaigning tactics of Farage et al are making people like that think it's OK to hold those attitudes and if they are allowed to take over the country it's not a place I want to raise my daughter.
  1. 20-06-2016 10:52
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Well this could turnout to be the most damaging result Britain has seen since the last World war. Scotland will ask for another referendum ,this time they will leave the UK.The Irish trouble could well flare up again ,a call for a united Ireland from the nationalists is inevitable .
Are we really strong enough to go it alone, we are not Great Britain no more ,more like Little Britain.Its fasten your seat belts time for me, we are in for a rough ride.
  1. 24-06-2016 07:08
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Did the majority of the UK ASK for this referendum? It was forced upon us by Farage and Cameron and his back benchers so that the Tories could win the General election. In other words it was engineered for the sole reason of political power

Well,yes. It was in Tories manifesto,and they won the last election.
  1. 25-06-2016 17:15
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I hope the board admin thinks this subject deserves a new thread.

Just saw this posted on my Facebook.

I would only add that if the trend to remember the Wars on armistice day is more than a fashion and a cool thing to do, the complaining younger generations should stop and reflect.


I've bitten my tongue up until this point, but if I see another post about 'old people being responsible for us leaving the EU', "people who are 90 and are going to be dead soon making decisions on the behalf of the young and stuffing it up for them" or condemning the elderly's democratic right to vote, I'm going to burst.

I would say that old people have every sodding right to a vote, to be allowed a say. (PICTURE OF CHELSEA PENSIONER IN LAST YEAR'S FIELD OF POPPIES)
I've got no idea how he would have voted to Leave or stay in the EU, but what I do know is that he would have given his life, like many of his comrades did, to enable you all to have a voice. An opinion. To be heard.

These 'old people' many of you speak of, fought for our country. For our freedom. For our right to have a voice. You all used that right they fought so hard for on Thursday and you should be ashamed of yourself if you've even used that as an ammunition point.

I understand many of these veterans I speak of are now no longer with us, but their children are. And their grandchildren. And I'm pretty sure they haven't forgotten what these 'old' people did for us. They fought for peace and unity in the world, but they also fought for our country. How could a group of people be anymore torn with which way to vote than these? They may be 'old', but I sure as hell don't believe that the Grandparents of today would want to jeopardise the world of tomorrow.

I'm angry at the shit storm of hate and anger I've seen over the last couple of days. I am angry that leave voters have been so scared to say that they voted leave, many I'm sure for valid and educated reasons, that people have been saying, "oh, look! See how quiet all the leave voters have been since the announcement was made. Idiots!".

They have probably been quiet through fear. Fear of being lynched, fear of being labelled racist and xenophobic. Fear of being accused of being 'working class' and bigoted. I know people who voted leave and they are none of those things. They are friends and I don't think any less of them for voting leave, than I do of those who voted to remain. I am just proud of them all for having an opinion.

This is not what our country is about. This is not what our older generation fought so hard for.

I am certain some war veterans, some 'old people', would have been utterly dismayed at yesterday's news, others would have been overjoyed. They fought for peace between nations, but also for the freedom of our country. Even they will have been torn as to what box to tick, probably more than any of us will ever know.

I am not writing this as a for or against the result, I am not siding with either viewpoint, that's not what I am here to say. But please think before you open your mouths, click share on an article, or get all high and mighty behind your keyboards and phones. A lot of people are hurting. A lot of people are angry, and that is understandable, but to play the age card in all this is just below the belt and uncalled for.

Being kind to each other takes a lot less effort than being unkind.

It's time to move forward together and to be thankful to those 'old people' for creating the 'free' world in which we live in today.
  1. 28-06-2016 16:15
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Who gives a shit as long as the DUP gets it's [censored] way!

Why shouldn’t they get their way? They’re as British as the rest of us.
  1. 05-12-2017 23:52
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I don`t think the main moan of the folk that voted to leave the EU is about bent bananas (though there`s plenty of them in the EU), good old days, jumpers for goalposts, etc, it`s more about not being part of a lumbering, over bureaucratic, unresponsive, sclerotic, dodgy organisation that can`t keep its accounts up to date.
  1. 22-06-2018 17:22
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A bit too simple Deckchair-the 27 countries are misaligned in so many ways, but are indeed bound together by a common desire to hold the line on peace-admirable and of course the EU was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 2012 for maintaining relative peace for 70 odd years.Of course,if we hadn’t engaged in 1939, who knows where Europe would be now?To be treated this week with utter contempt is deplorable.They simply don’t want us to exit because it would open the dam gates and they need our cash
  1. 21-09-2018 22:01
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It was a vote by people sick of the political elite who also think Jacob Rees Mogg and James Dyson are on their side.

To me, it was a vote by people 'sick' of immigration from 'Eastern Europe'. They were voting, in their own minds, to protect their own economic interests, but failing to see that Brexit will damage the economy as a whole, and in turn, their (our) own personal interest.

The EU is an undemocratic, bloated cartel, that wastes and embezzles money on a Biblical scale. It is tearing itself to pieces, as there are no rules or financial qualifications to join, the whole thing has become a quango.

The EU negotiators are now primarily interested in our loot, to avoid an EU recession that is imminent with a No Deal departure. The sooner we are free from the shackles of the cartel, the sooner we can trade worldwide, with new growing economies, not just the festering declining EU.

Our economy will graduate back towards manufacturing, which is in the interests of our children and grand-children, short term pain for long-term gain.

The EU is living on borrowed time, the policies within are feeding right wing politics which we should all fear the outcome of.
  1. 19-10-2018 15:30
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When I look across to the EU what do I see, I see a Euro with the current balance account of France, Italy, Spain over 1000 Billion euros in the red, I see unemployment in many of the countries well above the UK rate.

We`re told that to leave the EU will be a commercial disaster, the EU exports to the UK many times what the UK exports to the EU, so would the EU risk the further loss of many millions of jobs by blocking trade with the UK.

The EU is a failing entity it`s exports to the wider world are steadily falling as emerging nation catch up and overtake the EU.

The UK out of the EU would have access to greater world markets and deregulation from the suffocating bureaucracy and free of the contestability of the EU would make UK products and services more competitive.

The EU is a Soviet style state, the democratic implications of this are an authoritarian humiliation of national parliaments with the said countries loss of self - determination, this is leading to the rise of right wing organisations. One of the purposes of the EU was to prevent devastating wars that have ravaged the continent over the years, this overbearing authoritarianism is breeding trouble for the future, it wouldn`t be any surprise to me if there is a civil war or a war between some European nations within the next 20 years.

Lastly, the thing the EU doesn`t want is for the UK to have a successful withdrawal and subsequent prosperity, it may just kick start the domino effect.
  1. 14-12-2018 16:22
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We agreed to leave in one way or another.

If they cannot agree on how we leave then we leave with 'no deal'.

Simple really, the people spoke.
  1. 15-01-2019 20:31
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I’m no great fan of Farage but that was a great speech. If May had taken that approach it would have been the EU right now begging us for concessions and reciprocal agreements, and the contingencies for a no deal would have been put in place a year ago. We’d simply be sat twiddling our thumbs waiting for 29th March watching the Euro lose value against all other currencies.
  1. 13-03-2019 16:16
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Barry - I agree that getting out is the right thing, even without a deal, but you can’t get rid of the immigrants. The Health Service and our agricultural and catering/hospitality sectors would simply fall apart. Get rid of the convicted criminals - agreed. I had a hand in doing that myself when I worked in the Immigration Appeals Courts. But getting rid of the rest would reduce our tax take - we’d actually be worse off. Some of those immigrants are paying the taxes that pay the benefits of our own home-grown workshy layabouts, and also those who genuinely need benefits, for whatever reason.

If you synchronise our own employment needs through new, smarter and targeted education policies then we might be able to reduce immigration in, say, 20 years or so. But that relies on politicians making sensible decisions so I won’t hold my breath.

Barry, what happened in New Zealand shows that it’s not immigrants or people of other racial/faith backgrounds that are the problem. It’s extremists of whatever colour or creed. 99.9% of people whether immigrant or indigenous just want to live quietly and in peace, earn a living and get on with their own lives. What’s wrong with that?
  1. 17-03-2019 00:25
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2016 - '' We must aknowledge the will of the people and leave the EU''.

2017 - '' Perhaps we should have a second vote, just to ratify what kind of Brexit we leave with, hard or soft''

2018 - '' Now parliament has ruled out a hard Brexit any ballot now should be between May's brexit or remain''

2019 - '' May's brexit has been rejected 3 times so the only real option left on the 2nd referendum is remain''.

The reason we have no deal as yet is because most MP's don't want a one or don't wish to leave and have contrived the position we are in by blaming someone else for the logjam.

The fact that 27 other countries voted for an extension last night is testament to how scared they are of a 'No Deal'.

If we had made that our default position 3 years ago and said '' Right, we have 3 years to prepare, if you want to make us an offer in the meantime, by all means feel free''.

We would be in a much better place now.
  1. 11-04-2019 18:39
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You see this is what happens when you shit on the hand that feeds you and turn your back on ordinary people outside the M25 the eu Elections are going to blast a massive hole through both main parties and the more mud thats slung at the Brexit Party the bigger the victory will be .
This is going to be a landslide .

  1. 11-05-2019 18:36
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Site Admin
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If Putin was British, Brexit would’ve been completed Months ago...
  1. 13-05-2019 18:52
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Charlatan, liar, con man, fraud, anti-NHS, anti-workers rights, climate change denier. Yet millions will still vote for him. What a shambles of a country we currently are.

If the country is in a shambles it`s not Mr Farage`s fault, it`s Westminster and the spineless, stupid bunch within, I`ll be voting for the guy for the same reason as DB.
  1. 17-05-2019 16:54
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The backing of some for the likes of Boris, Farage and The Trump scares the c**p out of me what sort of world, and yes there is something outside of our little country are they wishing for. Right now Trump is doing his best to try and start the next world war,
Boris is a clown in the same mould and Farage is a fascist with one policy. Doesn’t matter who wins Tory leadership battle their destructive policies will remain the same. Putin must be rubbing his hands at what’s going on in the west. All this detracts from the real issue of the destruction of the planet that provides us with life.

Fascist, bigot, racist are terms bandied about too regularly in these times, usually directed at folk who don`t follow or agree with the liberal outlook on our society or vote to leave the EU, vote for the Brexit party, the Conservatives, UKIP etc etc. The problem is, through all too common use against fairly normal folk who may have a different viewpoint such terms become degraded and the likes of Donald Trump and Nigel Farage, who aren`t fascists really, haven`t subscribed to massacring millions of their own people like the real fascists such as Hitler and Stalin (who was a brutal dictator, ie fascist in communist attire).
  1. 25-05-2019 20:33
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Find it quite ironic that two main traits of a liberal or of liberalism is democracy and freedom of speech, yet they seem intent on silencing those who don’t have the same ideology as them and going against democracy by demanding a second referendum. A lot of mixed up people about.

Change uk party; want to stay in EU and reform from within, why leave the party you were with instead of trying to reform from within.

Demand the vote goes back to the people, but refuse a by-election to give the vote back to the people.

SNP: Wants to stay in the EU because of trade yet wants to leave it's biggest market, the UK.

Also wants to have referendum after referendum until it wins one.

All mad and deluded.
  1. 25-05-2019 21:08
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