Tom Lawrence

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05 Oct 2019 21:56 #1 by Reopen The St Nich
Tom Lawrence was created by Reopen The St Nich
Just seen Tom Lawrences goal today and his muted celebration afterwards which was appropriate I thought. Just got me thinking to the incident with the drink driving and Keoghs injury and how football is very much a closed shop when this type of thing happens. I would imagine when it goes to court more detail will come out, but with these types of incidents and things like Danny Drinkwaters nightclub fight recently, football clubs pretty much impose an information blackout, I appreciate if I was involved in something like this I wouldn't want my employer telling every man and his dog, but do you think its a different scenario with high profile footballers, role models etc.

Another point, I wonder what Keoghs stance will be if this incident and subsequent injury means he never plays again, I wonder if this will mean some form of legal action against his fellow players. Obviously he is still under contract and getting paid so he only needs to concentrate on getting fit. But if this doesn't go well, he might consider his options.

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05 Oct 2019 23:20 #2 by carwash
Replied by carwash on topic Tom Lawrence
Legally the motor insurers would pick up any claim from Keogh for his injury however given his involvement in the drinking session 'contributory' negligence' would apply i.e. he should have known it was unsafe to be a passenger in a car driven by a drunk which could reduce any payout by about 80%. I suspect it will all be kept in-house.

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06 Oct 2019 01:43 - 06 Oct 2019 01:44 #3 by cufcmike
Replied by cufcmike on topic Tom Lawrence
Footballers car insurance is generally a bit more expensive, to cover the fact their cars will contain footballers, and also the fact that seemingly footballers drive like arseholes! Drink driving normally null and voids insurance policies though I think?
Last edit: 06 Oct 2019 01:44 by cufcmike.

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06 Oct 2019 19:30 #4 by triskelionblue
Replied by triskelionblue on topic Tom Lawrence

cufcmike wrote: Footballers car insurance is generally a bit more expensive, to cover the fact their cars will contain footballers, and also the fact that seemingly footballers drive like arseholes! Drink driving normally null and voids insurance policies though I think?


I would think that too... most policies I think would have an exclusion for drink driving

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07 Oct 2019 10:41 - 07 Oct 2019 10:50 #5 by bluestblue
Replied by bluestblue on topic Tom Lawrence

triskelionblue wrote:

cufcmike wrote: Footballers car insurance is generally a bit more expensive, to cover the fact their cars will contain footballers, and also the fact that seemingly footballers drive like arseholes! Drink driving normally null and voids insurance policies though I think?


I would think that too... most policies I think would have an exclusion for drink driving


Even if there were a Drink Driving exclusion, the insurer would have to deal with the claim on behalf of the Motor Insurers Bureau as "insurer concerned." Then, any payment would come out of the MIB fund for death or injury victims of uninsured drivers, so whatever, Keogh would (will) get his payout.

The MIB would then have right of recovery against the driver (Lawrence). Now that would be interesting.
Last edit: 07 Oct 2019 10:50 by bluestblue.

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07 Oct 2019 11:54 #6 by carwash
Replied by carwash on topic Tom Lawrence
From the Go Compare website. Is your insurance invalid if you drink and drive?
It depends. Your car insurance won't necessarily be invalid if you're drink driving. However, if you've been in an accident whilst driving under the influence, your insurance company could refuse to pay out for your repairs or injury claims.
Under the Road Traffic Act, insurers must meet the costs of any claim by a third party for injury or damage. Be warned though - the insurer’s entitled to claim these costs back from you.
Most insurance policies will have a drink and drug driving clause. Make sure you check your policy documents to find out what you're covered for.

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07 Oct 2019 13:43 #7 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic Tom Lawrence
About eighteen years ago down south my mate totalled his XR3I, he had only had one pint and was just over the limit but he collided with another car (more out of anger than drink driving as he had hit the pub intending to leave his car there but had left his wallet at home and went back to retrieve it thinking that he would be okay) maybe things have changed now regarding drink driving but the insurance company paid out for his and the other car, things might have been different had there been any injuries of course.

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07 Oct 2019 13:57 #8 by heilkmoon
Replied by heilkmoon on topic Tom Lawrence

carwash wrote: I suspect it will all be kept in-house.


The big clubs employ Winston Wolfe-style fixers to try and keep players' misdemeanors out of the public eye wherever possible.

I'm aware of one case where a player (who also played for us at another time in his career) was involved in a single vehicle accident after drinking. He was straight on the phone to the club fixer, who came out, whisked him and his Mrs away from the scene, got the car taken to be repaired and the authorities were none the wiser.

I also heard in relation to this Derby incident that at least one of the players involved (or their representative) asked if the club could cover up the accident as no-one else was involved and pretend the injuries were sustained in training. As I heard it, the chairman refused.

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07 Oct 2019 22:01 #9 by Happyblue
Replied by Happyblue on topic Tom Lawrence
It should really just be a zero tolerance, even the smallest amount can effect your driving.

Owners like the stadium, full of Sh!T
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07 Oct 2019 22:16 #10 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic Tom Lawrence

Happyblue wrote: It should really just be a zero tolerance, even the smallest amount can effect your driving.


A true zero tolerance is impossible though, due to the presence of alcohol in all sorts of medicines, toiletries and food stuffs...

Win or Lose, Up The Blues!

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07 Oct 2019 22:22 - 07 Oct 2019 22:46 #11 by nobbyblue
Replied by nobbyblue on topic Tom Lawrence
My mate passed after having 6 or 7 pints a good few years back. He was very proud that he had bamboozled the constabulary that night. He was a lunatic mind.

In those days drink driving was more prevalent. It's more socially unacceptable now and so it should be.

I must have driven like a lot of people back in the day over the limit from the night before. Not nowadays though.

Drinking is a bit of a dying art these days. There's not the heavy drinkers there was when I was a lad. The 25 pints a night fellas are few and far between these days.
Last edit: 07 Oct 2019 22:46 by nobbyblue.

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07 Oct 2019 22:40 #12 by Happyblue
Replied by Happyblue on topic Tom Lawrence

CCU wrote:

Happyblue wrote: It should really just be a zero tolerance, even the smallest amount can effect your driving.


A true zero tolerance is impossible though, due to the presence of alcohol in all sorts of medicines, toiletries and food stuffs...

Ok virtually zero tolerance, drop it to the same level as Scotland across the board , even q pint it too much when driving.

Owners like the stadium, full of Sh!T

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07 Oct 2019 22:49 #13 by nobbyblue
Replied by nobbyblue on topic Tom Lawrence
How many people have been seriously injured/died in an accident caused by a fella having two pints. I don't know the figures but I would would say none.

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07 Oct 2019 22:51 #14 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic Tom Lawrence

Happyblue wrote:

CCU wrote:

Happyblue wrote: It should really just be a zero tolerance, even the smallest amount can effect your driving.


A true zero tolerance is impossible though, due to the presence of alcohol in all sorts of medicines, toiletries and food stuffs...

Ok virtually zero tolerance, drop it to the same level as Scotland across the board , even q pint it too much when driving.


Agree there, these days if you’re driving, simply don’t have any drink in a pub...

Win or Lose, Up The Blues!

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17 Oct 2019 21:32 #15 by ExiledJock
Replied by ExiledJock on topic Tom Lawrence
From Popbitch (all alleged obviously) -

* Captain Richard Keogh's debit card was rejected three times in the pub when he went to pay the final £800 of the bill.

* Staff said he started kicking off when he couldn't get his card to work, with one of them labelling him "the worst and biggest [censored]" they'd ever dealt with.

* The bar bill from the evening's drinks was almost three grand and included 75 Jagermeisters, 38 tequilas and 54 sambucas.

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17 Oct 2019 22:05 #16 by Waltero
Replied by Waltero on topic Tom Lawrence
Quiet night then

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17 Oct 2019 23:07 #17 by Zebby
Replied by Zebby on topic Tom Lawrence

ExiledJock wrote: From Popbitch (all alleged obviously) -

* Captain Richard Keogh's debit card was rejected three times in the pub when he went to pay the final £800 of the bill.

* Staff said he started kicking off when he couldn't get his card to work, with one of them labelling him "the worst and biggest [censored]" they'd ever dealt with.

* The bar bill from the evening's drinks was almost three grand and included 75 Jagermeisters, 38 tequilas and 54 sambucas.


I've seen a photo of the bill if I knew how to post photos I would put it on here it's impressive but right at the bottom of a very long and hugely impressive bill is 3 bottles of j20

One person at least was sober enough to drive

Be just and fear not

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18 Oct 2019 07:31 #18 by CarlisleWhite
Replied by CarlisleWhite on topic Tom Lawrence
The photo of the bill is from the Leeds celebration after the game (about £2.5K?) when they stopped at a pub on the way home. Lampard was boasting about paying it.
Yes, the same Lampard who gave them a character reference at the court case.
Both of them ended up only a few pints over the limit didn't they. Not sure how mind with the pictures of Bennet spewing his ring before it.

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18 Oct 2019 10:00 #19 by triskelionblue
Replied by triskelionblue on topic Tom Lawrence
I'm even wary of driving the next morning if I've had a couple of beers the night before - lucky I walk to work...

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18 Oct 2019 11:28 #20 by Waltero
Replied by Waltero on topic Tom Lawrence
Lucky I can't be arsed to drive anymore, have bus pass have fun

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18 Oct 2019 13:50 #21 by Zebby
Replied by Zebby on topic Tom Lawrence

CarlisleWhite wrote: The photo of the bill is from the Leeds celebration after the game (about £2.5K?) when they stopped at a pub on the way home. Lampard was boasting about paying it.
Yes, the same Lampard who gave them a character reference at the court case.
Both of them ended up only a few pints over the limit didn't they. Not sure how mind with the pictures of Bennet spewing his ring before it.


£2,802 the J2Os at bottom of bill still make me chuckle

Be just and fear not

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30 Oct 2019 19:35 #22 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic Tom Lawrence
Keogh been sacked by Derby:


Win or Lose, Up The Blues!

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30 Oct 2019 19:40 #23 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic Tom Lawrence
Weird that the other two didn't get the sack and they got rid of a passenger....

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30 Oct 2019 19:41 #24 by nobbyblue
Replied by nobbyblue on topic Tom Lawrence
Keogh will be kneeding a new club now then.

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30 Oct 2019 19:44 - 30 Oct 2019 19:44 #25 by ParcelPete
Replied by ParcelPete on topic Tom Lawrence
Just a question of how
much dough.
Last edit: 30 Oct 2019 19:44 by ParcelPete.

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30 Oct 2019 19:48 #26 by Waltero
Replied by Waltero on topic Tom Lawrence
Seems a bit of a knee-jerk reaction

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30 Oct 2019 22:28 - 30 Oct 2019 22:29 #27 by PaddockRanger
Replied by PaddockRanger on topic Tom Lawrence

munchymagic wrote: Weird that the other two didn't get the sack and they got rid of a passenger....



not really, the other 2 players also responsible for the incident did not suffer career threatening injuries. Keogh is definitely out for the season, probably longer. why pay a crocked player where his injury happened committing an unlawful act.
Last edit: 30 Oct 2019 22:29 by PaddockRanger.

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31 Oct 2019 06:07 #28 by Waltero
Replied by Waltero on topic Tom Lawrence
Is getting into a vehicle with someone who's been drinking an unlawful offence why wasn't Keough charged

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31 Oct 2019 07:54 #29 by CarlisleWhite
Replied by CarlisleWhite on topic Tom Lawrence
Shocking response by a shit house of a club, but apparently the argument is his own negligence has caused him to be unfit to play, whereas the other two have not.
What a terrible way to treat an employee, even if it is Richard Keogh.
Can't wait for Rooney to get there so they can improve the image of the club??
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31 Oct 2019 08:16 #30 by nobbyblue
Replied by nobbyblue on topic Tom Lawrence
Keogh will be consulting his legal team on that I would think.

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31 Oct 2019 08:21 #31 by orfc
Replied by orfc on topic Tom Lawrence

Waltero wrote: Is getting into a vehicle with someone who's been drinking an unlawful offence why wasn't Keough charged


You could charge all the passengers on a bus if the driver had been drinking if that was true

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31 Oct 2019 08:34 #32 by CarlisleSaint
Replied by CarlisleSaint on topic Tom Lawrence

PaddockRanger wrote:

munchymagic wrote: Weird that the other two didn't get the sack and they got rid of a passenger....



not really, the other 2 players also responsible for the incident did not suffer career threatening injuries. Keogh is definitely out for the season, probably longer. why pay a crocked player where his injury happened committing an unlawful act.


The other 2 players will have a sell on value at somepoint in the future,Keogh doesnt
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31 Oct 2019 08:45 #33 by sirjimmyglass
Replied by sirjimmyglass on topic Tom Lawrence
There'll be something in their contracts which says they can be sacked if their own negligence leads them to be unable to play for the club.

As much as Keogh will be consulting lawyers, I've no doubt Derby will have made sure they haven't done anything wrong.

The other two can pay the club back for their mistake, Keogh can't.

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31 Oct 2019 09:01 #34 by Mikercufc
Replied by Mikercufc on topic Tom Lawrence
Surely this will be appealed and a settlement offered to Keogh?
The other two arguably have done worse by driving, yet don’t get sacked.

As previously said, there’s value in them two players as they are young, but in a work place surely this is discrimination on his age?

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31 Oct 2019 09:11 #35 by Waltero
Replied by Waltero on topic Tom Lawrence
Apparently he was told he could see his contract out but on reduced terms. Should have taken that option in my view

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31 Oct 2019 09:45 #36 by ParcelPete
Replied by ParcelPete on topic Tom Lawrence
I thought recovery was supposed to be quicker after Keogh surgery.
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31 Oct 2019 09:51 #37 by ParcelPete
Replied by ParcelPete on topic Tom Lawrence

CarlisleWhite wrote: Shocking response by a shit house of a club, but apparently the argument is his own negligence has caused him to be unfit to play, whereas the other two have not.
What a terrible way to treat an employee, even if it is Richard Keogh.
Can't wait for Rooney to get there so they can improve the image of the club??


"A shit house of a club" from a Leeds fan,you need to take your blinkers off CW.
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31 Oct 2019 10:29 #38 by sirjimmyglass
Replied by sirjimmyglass on topic Tom Lawrence

Mikercufc wrote: Surely this will be appealed and a settlement offered to Keogh?
The other two arguably have done worse by driving, yet don’t get sacked.

As previously said, there’s value in them two players as they are young, but in a work place surely this is discrimination on his age?


Nothing to do with discrimination, the difference is that Keogh is in all likelihood not going to be able to play for Derby again.

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31 Oct 2019 10:39 #39 by CarlisleWhite
Replied by CarlisleWhite on topic Tom Lawrence
Ha ha.
What is it that is bothering you Pete?
Something from 10 or 20 years ago as seems to be the norm.

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31 Oct 2019 10:46 #40 by orfc
Replied by orfc on topic Tom Lawrence

CarlisleWhite wrote: Shocking response by a shit house of a club, but apparently the argument is his own negligence has caused him to be unfit to play, whereas the other two have not.
What a terrible way to treat an employee, even if it is Richard Keogh.
Can't wait for Rooney to get there so they can improve the image of the club??


Is a snide decision, but Cardiff trying to wriggle out of paying Sala's transfer fees to Nantes is still the winner for me

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31 Oct 2019 10:47 #41 by Mikercufc
Replied by Mikercufc on topic Tom Lawrence

sirjimmyglass wrote:

Mikercufc wrote: Surely this will be appealed and a settlement offered to Keogh?
The other two arguably have done worse by driving, yet don’t get sacked.

As previously said, there’s value in them two players as they are young, but in a work place surely this is discrimination on his age?


Nothing to do with discrimination, the difference is that Keogh is in all likelihood not going to be able to play for Derby again.


But in a work place it doesn’t mean you just sack them. To benefit the club and get him off the wage bill dosnt sit Right. If they other two had been equally punished then so be it, but they havnt and why? Because Keogh is 33 and will be passed it when he recovers?

I’m sure he will have insurance of some sort anyways.

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31 Oct 2019 10:54 #42 by Waltero
Replied by Waltero on topic Tom Lawrence
Surely the PFA will have a good legal team on board to fight his corner, that's what you pay your subs for

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31 Oct 2019 11:18 #43 by Happyblue
Replied by Happyblue on topic Tom Lawrence
How many employers would willing pay the salary of an employee unable to do his job for 18 months , when they have a convinient way to sack him

Owners like the stadium, full of Sh!T
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31 Oct 2019 11:19 #44 by ParcelPete
Replied by ParcelPete on topic Tom Lawrence

CarlisleWhite wrote: Ha ha.
What is it that is bothering you Pete?
Something from 10 or 20 years ago as seems to be the norm.


Only place i have ever been spat at CW i realise all teams have moron fans but Elland road was my worst experiance as an away fan.
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31 Oct 2019 15:55 #45 by Dancingbear
Replied by Dancingbear on topic Tom Lawrence
Maybe the fact he’s captain and possibly other factors like maybe encouraging them to drive has played into it as well.

There's only one way of life and that's your own!!!
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31 Oct 2019 16:31 #46 by orfc
Replied by orfc on topic Tom Lawrence
Yeh but he was pissed and therefore not in a state to give informed consent for them to drive him home (according to feminists or summat)

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31 Oct 2019 16:31 #47 by CarlisleWhite
Replied by CarlisleWhite on topic Tom Lawrence
Not the first time I've heard away supporters being abused to be honest, some of the idiots see it a badge of honour.
Think I'd rather have a right hook than be spat at. Happened once to me playing rugby and was fuming. Carlisle lad as well.
Not sure how one or two morons make it a shithouse club mind.

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31 Oct 2019 18:33 #48 by nobbyblue
Replied by nobbyblue on topic Tom Lawrence
One or two? :-D

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01 Nov 2019 08:19 #49 by CarlisleWhite
Replied by CarlisleWhite on topic Tom Lawrence

nobbyblue wrote: One or two? :-D

What you mean hundreds or thousands gobbed at Pete? Not sure he said that.

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01 Nov 2019 08:58 #50 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic Tom Lawrence
Thousands of them think they’re Champions of Europe when they’ve never won it!

Win or Lose, Up The Blues!

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