Bury's new financial trouble?

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30 Aug 2019 21:38 #351 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
There is a code of conduct for becoming a director of a plc-policed by the plc advisors and enforced by the FCA.

Shouldn’t be too difficult to replicate.

As for the EFL CEO lady, she looked like the proverbial rabbit in the headlights.

The SFA are worse-presiding over sectarianism to keep the Old Firm onside.Absolutely shameful that UEFA have had to step in(twice) in the last couple of weeks.

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30 Aug 2019 23:16 #352 by baggieblue
Replied by baggieblue on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
If Bury are to survive as a football club they will need to generate some income this season. It appears unlikely that they will now be able to join any league but will Bury still be able to play in the F.A. Cup; and if so at what stage could they enter.

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30 Aug 2019 23:47 - 30 Aug 2019 23:48 #353 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic Bury's new financial trouble?

baggieblue wrote: If Bury are to survive as a football club they will need to generate some income this season. It appears unlikely that they will now be able to join any league but will Bury still be able to play in the F.A. Cup; and if so at what stage could they enter.


I think that the debt is too high and as you say they need to generate some income so it looks bleak when you cannot play any games.

Say they did manage to loan a few players, I would imagine that they would be on course for some Bolton style tankings or worse in the FA Cup.

It isn't even fair if they went into The Conference or Conference North as some properly run clubs will lose out along the way as two teams may need to be plonked into the Northern Leagues, there may be no relegation from the football league but it will have repercussions further down the pyramid I would imagine.

If Bury went into a higher league than Workington for example I would be asking why?
Last edit: 30 Aug 2019 23:48 by munchymagic.

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31 Aug 2019 00:37 #354 by Tonyhemmings
Replied by Tonyhemmings on topic Bury's new financial trouble?

baggieblue wrote: If Bury are to survive as a football club they will need to generate some income this season. It appears unlikely that they will now be able to join any league but will Bury still be able to play in the F.A. Cup; and if so at what stage could they enter.


The FA announced yesterday they won't be in the FA cup this year. I would presume there will be a 'lucky loser' from the 4th qualifying round to make the numbers up like when Darlington got through to the 3rd round in 1999-00 because of Manchester United not participating.

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31 Aug 2019 12:08 #355 by bluestblue
Replied by bluestblue on topic Bury's new financial trouble?

Tonyhemmings wrote: Bury now threatening legal action against EFL, want to be placed in League 2 next season.

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49526433


"Threatening" and "doing" are poles apart

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31 Aug 2019 12:24 #356 by nobbyblue
Replied by nobbyblue on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
That Dale had plenty of time to sell the club so to come with all this guff now is preposterous sad though it is for the fans.
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02 Sep 2019 21:24 #357 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic Bury's new financial trouble?

Win or Lose, Up The Blues!

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03 Sep 2019 15:00 #358 by Waltero
Replied by Waltero on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
What's everyone's thoughts on the local MP trying to have Bury reinstated into league 2. I disagree as it sets a precedent

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03 Sep 2019 15:08 #359 by Mullen103
Replied by Mullen103 on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
If it’s the same club and it gets a takeover than I can see the benefits of discussing admitting them in league 2 and take this season as automatic relegation. They’d have to be points deducted as well next season.

If the club gets liquidated, then there’ll have to start again at the bottom as it’ll be a new Phoenix club so new club.

At least we’re not Stockport

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03 Sep 2019 15:09 #360 by Mullen103
Replied by Mullen103 on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
I think a decisions already been made :)

At least we’re not Stockport

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03 Sep 2019 15:18 #361 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic Bury's new financial trouble?

Waltero wrote: What's everyone's thoughts on the local MP trying to have Bury reinstated into league 2. I disagree as it sets a precedent


Stevenson would be telling the EFL that the punishment was too lenient if it was us.
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03 Sep 2019 15:55 #362 by heilkmoon
Replied by heilkmoon on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
It would probably mean a return to two relegation places to the Conference this season, so on that basis alone I can't see many League 2 clubs being in favour.

Bolton no doubt got off lightly in comparison, but two wrongs don't make a right.

Can't help thinking if it wasn't an "old" club like Bury, let's say it was Cheltenham or Crawley, nobody would be arsed at all.
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03 Sep 2019 16:56 #363 by Flatcap
Replied by Flatcap on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
Usually if a club gets booted out of a league they have to apply lower down the pyramid and have to wait until the following season.. The National League (Conference) usually refuse to accept a team with financial difficulties. Most likely to be accepted in the Northern Premier League or a step lower, if they haven't folded by then..

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03 Sep 2019 17:09 #364 by Markovitch
Replied by Markovitch on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
League discussing whether it is legal to reintroduce a wage cap. So no player in our division could earn more than 120k a year.

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03 Sep 2019 17:10 #365 by digger
Replied by digger on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
How could anybody trust an mp after their performances over the brexit horror show these past 3 years a bunch of liars .

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03 Sep 2019 17:11 #366 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
Greater Manchester Police investigating fraud at Bury

Well well well! At the very least

To have been born Cumbrian
is to have won the lottery of life !

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03 Sep 2019 17:32 #367 by Bluedazblue
Replied by Bluedazblue on topic Bury's new financial trouble?

heilkmoon wrote: It would probably mean a return to two relegation places to the Conference this season, so on that basis alone I can't see many League 2 clubs being in favour.

Bolton no doubt got off lightly in comparison, but two wrongs don't make a right.

Can't help thinking if it wasn't an "old" club like Bury, let's say it was Cheltenham or Crawley, nobody would be arsed at all.


Also its proximity to Media City in Salford.

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03 Sep 2019 18:00 #368 by pigeonpete
Replied by pigeonpete on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
It has got to be a "no" because how is that fair to other clubs such as Maidstone, Hereford, Aldershot, Newport who all had to start again three or four leagues lower and work their way back up.
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03 Sep 2019 18:18 #369 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
EFL had their say earlier:


Win or Lose, Up The Blues!

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03 Sep 2019 18:30 #370 by Zebby
Replied by Zebby on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
I live about 3 miles from ground I know quite a few Bury supporters I work with a few and it's horrible for the fans I was talking to a bloke at work yesterday and he was welling up talking about it they have been double whammied with two corrupt owners it's a disgrace whats happened to them with these owners I hope they survive...Bury fans think the EFL have it in for them and can't wait to shut a club down to make an example to others

Either way it must be heartbreaking

Be just and fear not

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03 Sep 2019 18:37 #371 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic Bury's new financial trouble?

Zebby wrote: I live about 3 miles from ground I know quite a few Bury supporters I work with a few and it's horrible for the fans I was talking to a bloke at work yesterday and he was welling up talking about it they have been double whammied with two corrupt owners it's a disgrace whats happened to them with these owners I hope they survive...Bury fans think the EFL have it in for them and can't wait to shut a club down to make an example to others

Either way it must be heartbreaking


"Bury fans think the EFL have it in for them and can't wait to shut a club down to make an example to others"

And so they should really

Even Sir Richard Branson could buy a club and run it into the ground and he would easily pass the fit and proper test.

As said Bolton at least fulfilled fixtures and didn't push the hand of the league like Bury did by playing none and getting expelled from the League Cup.

As you say though not the fans fault and it is them I feel sorry for.

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03 Sep 2019 18:44 #372 by Zebby
Replied by Zebby on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
Bury wanted to play games munchy I believe EFL said they couldn't or that's what I'm lead to believe

Be just and fear not
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03 Sep 2019 19:07 #373 by Waltero
Replied by Waltero on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
Wasn't it partly due to not being able to guarantee stewarding for home games

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04 Sep 2019 10:17 #374 by baggieblue
Replied by baggieblue on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
No Munchy, Bolton have not fulfilled all there matches. They failed to play their last fixture last season and this year withdrew from the league cup.

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04 Sep 2019 10:34 #375 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
Bolton got beat 5-2 at Rochdale in the First Round of the League Cup. No withdrawal...

Win or Lose, Up The Blues!

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04 Sep 2019 10:43 #376 by orfc
Replied by orfc on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
Yeh, it was a Doncaster game they dodged because it was midweek and their youth team would be knackered for school the next day

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20 Sep 2019 20:57 - 20 Sep 2019 20:58 #377 by Tonyhemmings
Replied by Tonyhemmings on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
Bury rescue board have submitted proposal to the EFL to be put into league 2 next season.

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49776759
Last edit: 20 Sep 2019 20:58 by Tonyhemmings.

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20 Sep 2019 21:06 #378 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
All the other teams in League One lose the revenue that a home game would have brought - especially if you were due to play them on Boxing Day at your place.

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21 Sep 2019 09:51 #379 by Jumpforfun
Replied by Jumpforfun on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
While i feel sorry for Bury and their supporters I cannot support them starting in league 2 next season.

They have been closed down, disbanded, expelled.

They bought their way out of league 2 in a totally unsustainable venture. That place should have gone to someone else who is now still in league 2. League 1 teams lose revenue. It cant go unpunished.
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21 Sep 2019 09:53 #380 by Waltero
Replied by Waltero on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
As much as I enjoys trips to Bury I don't think they should be allowed to start again in league 2. It sets a precedent which will come back to haunt the EFL. Conference at best
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21 Sep 2019 10:07 #381 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic Bury's new financial trouble?

Jumpforfun wrote: They have been closed down, disbanded, expelled.


Expelled, yes. But closed down and disbanded? No.

Still a Football Club, just not a member of any League currently!

Win or Lose, Up The Blues!
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21 Sep 2019 10:14 #382 by nobbyblue
Replied by nobbyblue on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
They've been kicked out of the league so I can't see how they can start again anywhere else but at the very bottom. There is no precedent for sticking them in League 2 or even the Conference.

Sad though it is for the fans.

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21 Sep 2019 11:27 #383 by carwash
Replied by carwash on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
As CCU says they have not been wound up and still exist as a football club exactly as before apart from being a member of the EFL. There is no clear precedent for what to do with a club in this situation which is why I am certain the EFL will allow them play in League 2 next season and make new rules justifying the decision. It's up to League 2 clubs to avoid that second bottom place. Of course Bury are still fighting a winding-up petition so if that succeeds then the old rules apply and they have to start at the bottom again.

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23 Sep 2019 23:47 #384 by Flatcap
Replied by Flatcap on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
Normally when a team gets expelled they drop a minimum of three tiers.
As CCU says they have not gone bust so do not necessarily have to drop to the bottom of the pyramid system.
I don't blame them for asking to get back to League Two, but in reality they are more likely to drop further down the system.
I suspect the hope is that by applying for membership of League Two they will not drop as far down the system as would otherwise be the case.

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24 Sep 2019 04:52 #385 by Markovitch
Replied by Markovitch on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
Don't see them getting back in. What is the difference between Bury and Workington? Both fully functioning football clubs who aren't members of the football league. Why should Bury suddenly be elevated? Let them start at the bottom.
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24 Sep 2019 19:08 #386 by CCU

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25 Sep 2019 11:47 #387 by Waltero
Replied by Waltero on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
So basically what he's saying is that it's everybody else's fault but Burys

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25 Sep 2019 11:57 - 25 Sep 2019 12:25 #388 by 182blue
Replied by 182blue on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
I don’t think the way it is being said that being in the EFL is the be all and end all, is very helpful to their cause..
Decent sized clubs like Notts County , Chesterfield and Hartlepool have dropped out the league.
That’s not great for them, or their fans, but they have to get on with it.
If Bury were to be placed into the Conference North next season, there would be few complaints from other clubs and surely fhose involved with Bury should be happy with that too?
Last edit: 25 Sep 2019 12:25 by 182blue.

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25 Sep 2019 16:05 #389 by franksidebottom
Replied by franksidebottom on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
The closest comparison to Bury is probably Gateshead who were suspended from the National League at the end of last season for breaching several financial rules. They were demoted to National League North (tier 6) which would probably be a fair conclusion to the Bury situation.

Not entirely sure, but I think this may depend on the National League allowing them in, otherwise it would be the Northern Premier League or whatever it’s called these days.

“Yeah, I know of Barry. Bit of a fantasist” - John Courtenay 2003

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26 Sep 2019 08:45 #390 by pigeonpete
Replied by pigeonpete on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
Hasnt the North West Counties League been mentioned?

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26 Sep 2019 08:53 #391 by Waltero
Replied by Waltero on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
I see the trust are doing a survey on whether Bury should be allowed back into league 2 . Bet they wouldn't do one on "how the fans view the trust"

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26 Sep 2019 09:15 #392 by carwash
Replied by carwash on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
I think the issue is that if Bury were to fail to gain a place in League 2 next season then it is likely to go into liquidation. If that happened then it would have to start again as a different club at the bottom of the pyramid. The EFL are likely to display the backbone of a jellyfish and reverse their decision and allow Bury into L2 would be my expectation.

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26 Sep 2019 09:18 #393 by heilkmoon
Replied by heilkmoon on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49829915

"The BBC understands most League Two clubs are strongly opposed"

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26 Sep 2019 09:54 #394 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic Bury's new financial trouble?

heilkmoon wrote: www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49829915

"The BBC understands most League Two clubs are strongly opposed"


Would Turkey’s vote for Christmas?!

Win or Lose, Up The Blues!
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26 Sep 2019 10:52 #395 by orfc
Replied by orfc on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
If only there was someone who sat on both fa and efl boards, they'd be well placed to offer some perspective on this.

www.efltrust.com/our-board/
www.efl.com/-more/all-about-the-efl/efl-board/
www.thefa.com/about-football-association...e-are/the-fa-council

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26 Sep 2019 11:16 #396 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
Most fans don’t want them back, so he’ll probably vote to allow them...

Win or Lose, Up The Blues!
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26 Sep 2019 15:05 - 26 Sep 2019 15:10 #397 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
No return for Bury:


Win or Lose, Up The Blues!
Last edit: 26 Sep 2019 15:10 by CCU.

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26 Sep 2019 15:27 #398 by Urban Designer
Replied by Urban Designer on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
What level do bust clubs have to start again in the non league pyramid?

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26 Sep 2019 15:32 - 26 Sep 2019 15:34 #399 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
Bury aren’t bust.

Depends what League will have them, bearing in mind there’ll be a knock on down the pyramid.

Would likely be either the Northern Premier (Level Seven or Eight) or even the NW Counties (Level Nine or Ten). You’d imagine they’d have to start in the lowest division of whichever League they entered?

For comparison, League 2 is Level Four...

Win or Lose, Up The Blues!
Last edit: 26 Sep 2019 15:34 by CCU.

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26 Sep 2019 16:06 #400 by carwash
Replied by carwash on topic Bury's new financial trouble?
The League 2 club votes won the day to keep Bury out and have only one go down from L2. The EFL executive tried their damnedest to allow Bury back but in the phrase of the moment turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

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