CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18

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19 Dec 2018 10:06 - 19 Dec 2018 10:06 #51 by Mouldy
Replied by Mouldy on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18
Minutes probably delayed due to my half hour long ‘discussion’ about what CUSG is and isn’t achieving, how questions should be submitted etc. It got a touch passionate this week.


Edit to add this is a joke; minutes on track. Rant happened.

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Last edit: 19 Dec 2018 10:06 by Mouldy.
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19 Dec 2018 17:56 #52 by Mullen103
Replied by Mullen103 on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18

Mouldy wrote: Minutes probably delayed due to my half hour long ‘discussion’ about what CUSG is and isn’t achieving, how questions should be submitted etc. It got a touch passionate this week.


Edit to add this is a joke; minutes on track. Rant happened.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good!

You’ve shook the meeting up, I’ll give you that. Previously it was a nice cosy chat achieving very little.

At least we’re not Stockport

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21 Dec 2018 12:14 #53 by BoardAdmin
Replied by BoardAdmin on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18

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21 Dec 2018 12:17 - 21 Dec 2018 12:43 #54 by BoardAdmin
Replied by BoardAdmin on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18
Further to discussion at the CUSG Meeting on Mon 17 Dec 2018, this is the agreed format that we’ll submit any questions for future Meetings.

- Mon before a Meeting, Thread set up for any questions, with a closing date of the Friday.
- Fri eve before a Meeting, questions collated by TCN and forwarded to all parties.
- Mon of a Meeting, any queries or clarifications regarding questions will be dealt with. 
- Thurs eve, all answers to be received, to enable ourselves to collate and prepare for publication.
- Fri, usual publishing of Minutes from Meeting with Q&A’s then added onto Thread on Messageboard.

We don’t want to take up valuable time during a CUSG Meeting with all these questions (2/3 hours without them!) and this method will enable us to ensure that they’re both asked, and answered within the timeframes of a Meeting and the Minutes.

If for any reason a Group doesn’t wish to answer, or refuses to do so, we’ll record it as such. The clarity being important.

As this was discussed and agreed upon during the Meeting, we’re receiving the answers for this set of questions in the next few days, and will post them up as they’re received (At press, ourselves and The London Branch have answered, and CUOSC and Scottish Branch are in the pipeline). The Club asked that their Q&A’s be part of the Minutes.

Many thanks,

Admin.

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Last edit: 21 Dec 2018 12:43 by BoardAdmin.

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21 Dec 2018 12:19 - 22 Dec 2018 20:18 #55 by BoardAdmin
Replied by BoardAdmin on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18
An answer on behalf of CUSG from Simon Clarkson.

To all Groups: Is it possible to have a list of each Groups committee/board members if applicable?

Chair – Simon Clarkson (London Branch)
Secretary – Alistair Woodcock (CUOSC)
CUOSC – John Kukuc and Jim Mitchell
CUSAT – Kate Rowley and Keith Elliott
Cumbrians.net - Matt Spooner and Dan McLennan
Route 66 – John Ireland
Disabled – Barry Carter
London Branch – Terry McCarthy
Scottish – Keith Ward

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Last edit: 22 Dec 2018 20:18 by BoardAdmin.

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21 Dec 2018 12:20 - 22 Dec 2018 20:15 #56 by BoardAdmin
Replied by BoardAdmin on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18
London Branch response to MB questions:

To all Groups: Why is there not more fundraising going on given the Clubs financial position?

The London Branch fundraise all year round. From the 40 Club that generates around £2000 per season, merchandise for sale online, Hit the Bar sales, to the current Jimmy Glass t shirt campaign, all monies generated are donated to the club with the emphasis on youth and disabled facilities. We are regularly in discussion with the club as to how our donations can be best used.

To all Groups: Are you happy with the state of the Club? If yes, please explain why, and if no, why aren't you more vocal about it?

We are a democratic group and opinions vary throughout our membership. Our stance is determined by the majority. We have expressed concerns directly to the Club such as regarding ticket allocation for big games, that will in the future see all Supporters groups given the same priority.

To all Groups: Who/what are you most/least proud of about your Groups?

For 44 years we have promoted supporting the club as exiled fans both vocally at games and financially. We have a 95% renewal rate and a solid structure of volunteers with key accountable positions. The social side is really important, so group travel to matches and an annual summer trip are well received. Our geography reduces opportunity to get to home games but this is fact rather than something not to be proud of.

To all Groups: Were you democratically chosen to be your CUSG Rep, if not, why, and also what makes you the best person?

Yes our two reps have been democratically chosen by our membership.

To all Groups: If your Group was to be given £50k, how would you use it?

As with all of our fundraising and donations received, the money would be donated to the club for projects that our members felt were most appropriate.

Simon, what’s your background and what made you want to get involved in CUSG?

I’ve been a fan since moving to Carlisle in 1986. I moved to London in 2002 and joined the London Branch, taking up several posts before becoming Chair. When I relocated back to Carlisle in 2015, CUSG had just been set up and I was asked to represent the London Branch. I had seen from a distance the lack of cohesion between Supporters groups so saw CUSG as an opportunity for fans and club to work together. When in due course it was felt that CUSG needed a Chair, the reps asked me take on the role. I looked to step aside at the end of last season but was persuaded to stay on. I’ll definitely be handing over to someone else next season as I think that rotation of roles is essential.

I think, personally, the running of the Club is a total embarrassment. Is there anything around the Club that embarrasses you?

Our support is primarily at away games but when getting to home games we realise that certain areas of the ground eg Warwick Road End toilets fall below the standard of what fans deserve.

It was stated recently you had a vote about whether to withdraw support due to the current ownership situation. Why did this come about, and are any future votes on the matter planned?

All of our members are welcome to attend and take part in our monthly meetings and any member can request an item be placed on the agenda for discussion, as was the case with this matter. As it was an important matter we consulted with the wider membership ahead of the meeting to allow those not able to make it to have their views included in the discussion. The meeting heard the views of those in attendance and those who had given feedback in advance before voting unanimously against the proposal. We then voted in favour of a donation towards the improvements to disabled facilities at Brunton Park.

The London Branch can be contacted at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. ,on Twitter @cusclbontour. We have a website www.carlislelondonbranch.org and produce a fanzine Hit the Bar regularly throughout the season.

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Last edit: 22 Dec 2018 20:15 by BoardAdmin.
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21 Dec 2018 12:22 - 21 Dec 2018 12:26 #57 by nobbyblue
Replied by nobbyblue on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18
What are the longer-term plans for the club? a 5yr plan (User was told that 5yr Plans were mentioned last time but still wanted question asked) including new fans, generating money, seeking investment and ground development, not to mention on field aspirations?

The club’s overall objective remains “working together, building a sustainable and successful club that we can take pride in.”

In overview ... with some simple examples of what that means – just a few examples of initiatives included for illustration:

+ Working together

Bring unity to Club, fans and community.

+ Develop CUSG as a means to:

Involve fans in supporter decisions – priorities for investment /changes.

Help communication direct with supporters – direct first hand access to club (CEO / staff) and facts.

Be more united with fans to address issues – eg SLO, wider diversity of fan participation

Build relations between Shareholders and CUOSC.

To be United in approach to key issues facing the club – share structure changes and new money.

Improve governance and supervision and scrutiny and challenge at board and day-to-day.

Provide fan perspective at the heart of the club.

Provide fans directly with more and detailed information about the club.

+ Monthly press briefings.

+ CUSG meetings and minutes.

+ Financial statement disclosure and information.

+ CUOSC updates.

+ Build relations with fans and wider community.

+ Fans – direct club to fans approach.

+ Business – have a reciprocal approach to business “win-win”.

+ Community groups – wide spread approach eg, charities and voluntary sector - continuous.

+ City Council, FA and Football Foundation - crucial for stadium.

+ Sustainable.

+ Grow and direct as much cash into our Football activities as we can without placing the club in a high risk position.

+ Reduce losses to affordable levels that don’t risk future of the club - reducing the club's risk and reliance on external cash support.

+ Minimise off the field costs – overheads, agents fees, seek business partnerships to reduce costs.

+ Improve financial control and business performance monitoring.

+ Grow underlying contribution (recurring turnover less ongoing non-football costs).

+ Invest effort in fans of the future.

+ Open up new commercial opportunities – new ideas; scoreboard adverts, dug out adds, ball plinth.

+ Bring in new commercial partners – via United for Business and Business Support Network.

+ Improve Academy to produce players to sell and reinvest – improved coaching by investing in Head of Coaching.

+ Recruit and develop players to sell and reinvest.

+ Attract the next generation of fans.

+ Develop Junior Blues – membership and conversion.

+ Free/low pricing for kid and young fans.

+ Open up mascots.

+ Develop and grow Community Ticket scheme.

+ Try new things.

+ Achieve ownership succession – open door approach to any interest, get club financially and operationally fit for sale on and of the field.

+ Fix long term stadium position.

+ Develop facilities that earn income to reinvest and fans want to use and are fit for purpose.

+ Mitigate flood risk as far as possible.

+ Take maximum advantage of DCMS FA Local Football Facility Plan.

+ Successful.

+ Everyone within the club is ambitious to improve and progress on and off the field, and the key priority is success in achieving progress up the football pyramid, starting with promotion to League 1.

+ Maximise use of budget - focusing on first class player coaching, match tactics, player recruitment, team and player preparation and development -not spending. Get more from every pound.

+ Improve on field performance – do the things that bring success.

+ Recruit and retain football staff who share same outlook and approach.

+ Introduce more football expertise to decision making at board level and reduce football risk.

+ Produce home grown players to improve the first team – invest in Academy staffing and coaching.

+ Bring in more football expertise at board level.

+ Pride.

+ Support community wherever we can – make a positive contribution – charity, concerts, etc, Community Sports Trust essential.

+ Be open and inclusive to all fans.

+ Celebrate and acknowledge club history – like memorabilia and new shirt project.

+ Positive approach - Promote positive stories and a can do approach – tinker, try.

All sounds good but words are cheap!
Last edit: 21 Dec 2018 12:26 by nobbyblue.

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21 Dec 2018 12:35 - 21 Dec 2018 14:15 #58 by BoardAdmin
Replied by BoardAdmin on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18
TheCumbrians.net response to MB questions:

To all Groups: Why is there not more fundraising going on given the Clubs financial position?

We have pushed in recent meetings to bring fundraising to top of priority list. Mouldy suggest having people appointed into roles - fundraising, communications etc - but despite requests it was not put on the agenda. We requested again this week.

To all Groups: Are you happy with the state of the Club? If yes, please explain why, and if no, why aren't you more vocal about it?

No - we want more financial stability, higher crowds and more on field success. We want new ownership and investment and see this as a long term solution.

To all Groups: Who/what are you most/least proud of about your Groups?

Least - At times the board can be disruptive and off topic - we are working to reduce personal insults, use of sensitive language.

Most - We are proud of the number of registered users we have.

To all Groups: Were you democratically chosen to be your CUSG Rep, if not, why, and also what makes you the best person?

No, we were not elected. We are the moderators and saw this as the easiest option - both Matt and Dan are local and can attend easily.

To all Groups: Is it possible to have a list of each Groups committee/board members if applicable?

We have the 5 Mod’s, as opposed to any Commitee/Board.

To all Groups: How have you, the Reps, helped CUSG, and how has your Group helped CUSG/The Club?

Since our arrival we have seen progress on previous subjects that have been repeatedly discussed. Our represented fan base ask questions and drive for open and honest communication.

To all Groups: If your Group was to be given £50k, how would you use it?

N/A

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Last edit: 21 Dec 2018 14:15 by CCU.

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21 Dec 2018 12:51 #59 by Mullen103
Replied by Mullen103 on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18
Thank you

I choose the London Branch, closely followed by Mouldy and CCU, they seem democratic, organised and professional. Shame they aren’t the trust really.

Simons answers were good.

Disappointed by CUsat again. Not sure what they bring to this meeting at present or warrants two reps.

Overall good answers and good info but still nothing much achieved. And nothing to say let’s get down to BP and spend our money!

At least we’re not Stockport

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21 Dec 2018 12:52 #60 by Mullen103
Replied by Mullen103 on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18
CUsat weren’t there, explains that, could still answer the questions though.

At least we’re not Stockport

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21 Dec 2018 14:12 #61 by Dancingbear
Replied by Dancingbear on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18

Mullen103 wrote: CUsat weren’t there, explains that, could still answer the questions though.


More secretive than North Korea

There's only one way of life and that's your own!!!

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21 Dec 2018 17:28 #62 by Croydonblue
Replied by Croydonblue on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18
same old shit, different day.
Like an Italian tank, only got reverse gear.

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21 Dec 2018 17:53 #63 by Mullen103
Replied by Mullen103 on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18

Dancingbear wrote:

Mullen103 wrote: CUsat weren’t there, explains that, could still answer the questions though.


More secretive than North Korea


They are the only group that guarantees a coach to away games, so must be commended for that.

If they stopped people would be stuck.

There’s people though think they are a clique, secretive and make money from it. Prove they aren’t!

At least we’re not Stockport

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21 Dec 2018 17:57 #64 by Waltero
Replied by Waltero on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18
It's up to them to prove they aren't. But don't hold your breath waiting for a response

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21 Dec 2018 18:26 #65 by Dancingbear
Replied by Dancingbear on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18
To be fair they don’t really have to prove owt unless someone takes them to court.

There's only one way of life and that's your own!!!

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21 Dec 2018 19:53 #66 by howoldboy
Replied by howoldboy on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18

Croydonblue wrote: same old shit, different day.
Like an Italian tank, only got reverse gear.


You are a racist Croydon.
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21 Dec 2018 23:49 #67 by Mouldy
Replied by Mouldy on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18
Thanks should be noted to London Branch and the club for promptly answering questions - I hope we get more responses in the coming days.

What isn’t mentioned in the minutes, which I feel I should share with you guys are the criticisms I passionately voiced. I am a bit disappointed that my request to acknowledge the criticisms voiced by myself in the meeting and others on social media and messageboards etc aren’t noted in the minutes - publicly accepting them and expressing commitment to improve would be refreshingly honest IMO. Acceptance is the first step to recovery or change. I can see why this may have been excluded, however. I guess part of the reason I want to share this with you is to nullify the thoughts and assumptions we’re ‘in bed’ with the club, trust etc.

For about 2 years I’ve read the minutes each 6 weeks and it’s always the same - little progress and just a talk about the same topics. Example, we have discussed iFollow, sunset memorabilia and disabled facilities every week which if anything draws attention to the fact there’s sometimes little progress. CUSG could (and should) be so much more. In the absence of a correctly functioning ‘official supporters club’ this umbrella group has been set up and, at present, seems to be little more than a talking shop. It simply isn’t good enough and I tried to make that clear as day.

I voiced my concerns that there are some groups there that offer little and perhaps their time would be better spent elsewhere. I also expressed concerns that there seems to be no structure. For CUSG to have a compiled wish list they want to help the club with, but no source of income other than pin badges sold well before our attendance, seems ludicrous. I emphasised my view that someone should be driving the fundraising, someone should be driving the external communications and so on. For example, Andy Hall has asked for a comment on the appointment of the new SLO - something CUSG spearheaded - no comments were provided by a member of CUSG - why? It’s the one thing of real substance CUSG has done recently.

I do think there’s been small steps of progress, that said. I am not saying everyone involved offers nothing, but I do feel the overall structure holds CUSG back - if you had a group of say 5/6 fans that really wanted to help improve things, but weren’t representative of a ‘supporters group’, then you’d make far more progress as they actually want to be there to improve things. The fact there are a number of groups who simply do not turn up regularly and some we are yet to meet is astounding, in my honest view.

I have found Nigel Clibbens to be more open than most round the table - I have actually enjoyed chatting to him and he has been very receptive towards criticisms of the club and suggested improvements - but accept others may not share this view. The minutes certainly don’t give a full and in depth view of the meeting but I think it’s important to recognise his efforts. I also found David Holdsworth’s comments refreshing - I hope the positive things he said are going to happen, do happen. Andy and Amy also offer good info and are passionate about CUSG improving things for fans and club alike. Nigel commented on the messageboard offering access to hundreds of fans who they wouldn’t get at forums, wouldn’t get at matches due to location etc. Other groups seemed to be of the opinion that if you don’t stand up and ask questions at a forum you should lose your voice and not have questioned answered - but I think that’s the good thing about the forum being represented, as folk who simply wouldn’t voice their opinions and suggestions would just sit quietly and keep thoughts to themselves.

I came away from the last meeting really considering whether or not I wanted to continue going. I feel some round the table do not listen to the point being made, or the words being spoken. A 20 minute discussion about how our vast number of questions should be submitted/answered ultimately ended in agreeing the suggestion I had put forward by email earlier that day! It really was a waste of time. If we’re going to sit for 3 hours, let’s make it a positive 3 hours and not just a chore. I’m sure CCU, who was with me on Monday, and the other mods won’t mind me saying this, but we have briefly touched on whether or not we should start to consider disengaging if there’s no change come the new year. We’ve said we’ll have a better chat after Xmas piss ups!

One final point I would like to note - I know a lot of you do not think the SLO role should be voluntary, but after meeting Geoff on Monday I think he will improve on the job previously done by Nigel Dickinson in his tenure and has said he has infrequently posted on here, but will certainly be looking to engage down line when he’s settled into the role. We subsequently offered him a recognisable SLO username. This has previously been offered to all other groups - nobody has accepted as of yet. Geoff seems a nice chap and a more importantly a loyal Carlisle fan.

(Sorry if I’ve bored anyone)

all views my own
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22 Dec 2018 00:09 #68 by cousinscotty
Replied by cousinscotty on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18
It must seem like an impossible task - certainly a thank-less one. I, though, would like to thank the pair of you for taking it on.
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22 Dec 2018 10:41 #69 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18
I’ll second Mouldy’s points regarding Nigel Clibbens at CUSG Meetings.

He’s open, listens, will give his or the Club’s point of view/opinion, and generally a good point of contact for the context of the Meetings.

That’ll probably surprise a few of you, but I can only report back how I find the bloke!

Win or Lose, Up The Blues!
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22 Dec 2018 10:45 #70 by Mullen103
Replied by Mullen103 on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18
I appreciate your candour Mouldy. We’ve had many disagreements over time, but you do stand your ground and you do want to improve things and stand up for suporters, well done!

I’m with you on this. I read the minutes previously and it just sounded like a cosy chat with little progress. I had to laugh reading one when CUSATS only contribution was whether we were going to sign anybody the week after.

I asked a lot of questions as I wanted to hear more from the groups that attend, to try to get this group working and achieve something. I feel the London branch came out head and shoulders above everyone else followed by yourselves and the club. Again cusat, R66, Scottish supporter and the trust offer little.

There’s been no progress at all. A little talk on things but nothing much. To be honest I don’t know what CUSG is meant to be/achieve I guess not having a structure doesn’t help.

I completely agree I think Geoff will be a huge improvement on the last SLO. Very sorry to hear of Nigel’s personal issues but doesn’t excuse the previous x number of years doing it.

Sometimes you just need to walk away. I went to 5 disabled group committee meetings where they were at most 4 of us. I gave help in applying for grants, suggested being a charity etc and decisions were being made presumably by Barry himself instead of the committee so what’s the point in going.

Which groups do you feel aren’t doing anything?

What reactions do you get from the questions submitted?

Is it worth putting it to a vote again to see if the messageboard want represented?

I had my doubts at first but I’d still like you and CCU to go, for the time being, but reading that it seems pointless and you have a lot of objections.

At least we’re not Stockport

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22 Dec 2018 11:05 #71 by PADDOCK
Replied by PADDOCK on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18

Dancingbear wrote: To be fair they don’t really have to prove owt unless someone takes them to court.


Would you believe Kate if she gave evidence/ Hmmmm.
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22 Dec 2018 11:06 #72 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18

Mullen103 wrote: I asked a lot of questions as I wanted to hear more from the groups that attend, to try to get this group working and achieve something. I feel the London branch came out head and shoulders above everyone else followed by yourselves and the club. Again cusat, R66, Scottish supporter and the trust offer little.


In fairness, as we’ve said earlier, both CUOSC and Scottish Branch are tackling them, with answers to come in the next couple of days (There was some confusion over timescales, hence why moving forward we’ve introduced the plan above).

Win or Lose, Up The Blues!

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22 Dec 2018 11:10 #73 by PADDOCK
Replied by PADDOCK on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18
How many are in the 'Scottish Supporters' group?

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22 Dec 2018 11:13 #74 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18

PADDOCK wrote: How many are in the 'Scottish Supporters' group?


Approx 50 Members on their Facebook Page from memory.

I think having Keith listed as ‘Scottish Supporter’ is a slight misnomer. He’s representing those not just turning up on his own!

Win or Lose, Up The Blues!

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22 Dec 2018 11:24 #75 by Dancingbear
Replied by Dancingbear on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18
Can you see if you can get Longtoon added to the Scottish supporters wing?

There's only one way of life and that's your own!!!
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22 Dec 2018 11:29 - 22 Dec 2018 11:37 #76 by Mouldy
Replied by Mouldy on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18
In all honesty Mullen I don’t even think it’s a case of certain groups not doing anything so to speak but just as a collective group nothing gets done. That’s why I think and have suggested a format of ‘sub committee’ for want of a phrase to look after micro projects may be better suited.

I must stress I am not detracting from work done by the groups in their own right - CUSAT do arrange buses to every away game for example, but when round the table as CUSG it seems interest wains. Before we joined they raised 2k from selling pin badges which is great - why hasn’t it continued?

I would say I’m disappointed by reaction to questions. I feel that from some there is a distinct reluctance to answer anything and CUOSC are on record to ‘not answer anonymous questions’. If any group after the club should be answering promptly it’s CUOSC - why should the club and other owners get criticisms and have to face them but CUOSC hide behind a ‘no anonymous’ line?

I’m hoping with 6 weeks to reflect on what has been said some groups will come back rejuvenated and we can actually make things better.

Perhaps it’s us that are at fault - perhaps we expect too much from the group and should lower our expectations - but why should fans accept that?

Like I say we’ll have a chat after Christmas in our group chat and propose some options in the new year.

Edit to correct typo - CUSAT arrange buses, whether they’re strange I have no idea.

all views my own
Last edit: 22 Dec 2018 11:37 by Mouldy.

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22 Dec 2018 11:34 - 22 Dec 2018 11:35 #77 by nobbyblue
Replied by nobbyblue on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18
'CUSAT do strange buses to every away game for example'

Bit harsh though I have to admit there's one or two weirdos usually aboard.
Last edit: 22 Dec 2018 11:35 by nobbyblue.
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22 Dec 2018 11:38 #78 by Mouldy
Replied by Mouldy on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18
I’ve corrected that blunder. Folk can form their own opinions.


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all views my own

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22 Dec 2018 13:10 #79 by Lakelandterrier
Replied by Lakelandterrier on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18

Mouldy wrote: In all honesty Mullen I don’t even think it’s a case of certain groups not doing anything so to speak but just as a collective group nothing gets done. That’s why I think and have suggested a format of ‘sub committee’ for want of a phrase to look after micro projects may be better suited.

I must stress I am not detracting from work done by the groups in their own right - CUSAT do arrange buses to every away game for example, but when round the table as CUSG it seems interest wains. Before we joined they raised 2k from selling pin badges which is great - why hasn’t it continued?

I would say I’m disappointed by reaction to questions. I feel that from some there is a distinct reluctance to answer anything and CUOSC are on record to ‘not answer anonymous questions’. If any group after the club should be answering promptly it’s CUOSC - why should the club and other owners get criticisms and have to face them but CUOSC hide behind a ‘no anonymous’ line?

I’m hoping with 6 weeks to reflect on what has been said some groups will come back rejuvenated and we can actually make things better.

Perhaps it’s us that are at fault - perhaps we expect too much from the group and should lower our expectations - but why should fans accept that?

Like I say we’ll have a chat after Christmas in our group chat and propose some options in the new year.

Edit to correct typo - CUSAT arrange buses, whether they’re strange I have no idea.



CUOSC don't reply to questions when you name is put to them either. Thats because they have to run anything by the club owners first.

Cumbrian and Proud

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22 Dec 2018 14:29 #80 by franksidebottom
Replied by franksidebottom on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18
Don’t know where to start really, fed up with the whole situation. Personally I think the way the football club is operating at the current moment in time, the way the club and certain supporters groups are viewed by sections of the fan base and the apathy surrounding the club and its support means any attempt to do anything positive is just pissing in the wind. Many don’t give a shit anymore, any hope and positivity amongst supporters disappeared a long time ago, we’ve been ground down by the ineptitude of those in charge. Just a sad state of affairs in all honesty.

It seems Mouldy is quite correct in the fact this supporters group made up of supporters groups is a dis-organised waste of time, a lot of talking with little action or end product. The only things which seem to get done at the club are a result of the club being shamed into action - the away disabled shelter and leaking WRE roof spring to mind. As you find in life, some people just like to be on boards and committees with little input or prospect of forcing change, the groups which make up CUSG seem to be a good example. Is there really any need for a disabled supporters group? Can they not just be part of a bigger, main supporters group? Why does a group who run a bus go away games need its own voice? Why does a club Carlisle’s size need so many different supporters groups? Wouldn’t it be better and have more say if we were all one? It’s all a bit of a nonsense to me.

The only group who seem to be organised, pro-active, worthy of a voice is the London Branch. It’s the only part of the football club and it’s support which is continually thriving and healthy. They were in the pub pre-match at MK Dons and they were selling the Jimmy Glass t-shirts, they were having their (I presume xmas) raffle with some decent prizes, they were selling their publication, all this continually fundraising for the club. Shouldn’t this be what CUOSC should be doing?

“Yeah, I know of Barry. Bit of a fantasist” - John Courtenay 2003
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22 Dec 2018 20:14 - 22 Dec 2018 20:19 #81 by BoardAdmin
Replied by BoardAdmin on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18
CUOSC response to MB Questions:

To all Groups: Why is there not more fundraising going on given the Clubs financial position?

We do what we can in terms of sponsorship. If we had more members we could do better. We are currently exploring what other supporters trusts are doing as far as fund-raising schemes are concerned.

To all Groups: Are you happy with the state of the Club? If yes, please explain why, and if no, why aren't you more vocal about it?

No one is. And we are vocal!

To all Groups: Who/what are you most/least proud of about your Groups?

We are proud that we have a voice inside the Club trying to make it move towards the organisation we and most fans want it to be. On the negative side we would like to have more members.

To all Groups: Were you democratically chosen to be your CUSG Rep, if not, why, and also what makes you the best person?

Yes

To all Groups: How have you, the Reps, helped CUSG, and how has your Group helped?

We will always try to help the club and anyone else who wants to work with them.

eg: Recently John Kukuc has worked with Barry, Matt and Barbara in considering options for, and providing and presenting a proposal for increased disabled seating in the East Stand.

John Kukuc has monitored before the match and at half time, over 4 Saturday home games, ABM Catering performance at their two outlets in the North and South Paddock. He issued a report to the club which, in turn, was presented by Nigel Clibbens to ABM at their recent meeting.

To all Groups: Is it possible to have a list of each Groups committee/board members if applicable?

Yes. See our web-site - www.cuosc.org.uk/meettheboard.shtml

To all Groups: If your Group was to be given £50k, how would you use it?

It would be invested in the future well-being of the club

What do you bring to the Club? It doesn’t look like financial help.

Our aim is to build a bond between the club and the community. We have given close to £10,000 in sponsorship over the last couple of seasons but obviously we would like it to be more. That is why we are always looking to increase our membership.

Are CUOSC happy with the way the Club is being ran? If no, why not more vocal?

CUOSC recognises the hard work and dedication of all the staff at the Club. Everyone knows the club needs new investment. We have made attempts in the past to bring this about and will continue to work to facilitate this outcome.

Have you ever thought about selling any shares to raise money for the Club?

It cost approx £800,000 for CUOSC to get a 25.4% stakeholding in the Club's Holding company and that is a responsibility we don't take lightly. We are willing to talk to any potential investor who has the interests of the Club at heart and sufficient financial wherewithal to take us forward. As we have said before and Jim repeated at last week’s directors’ press conference, we would be prepared to dilute out shareholding for the right investment ( subject of course to the agreement of our members ).

Why do CUOSC ask for foodbank donations when one stakeholder has a turnover of £7m (and associated costs)?

We do the foodbanks because we want to help the less fortunate in our community. Fans have always been very generous. The foodbank collections help bring the community together and the generosity of fans reflect well on the Club and the supporter community in the area.

As Shareholders, are you involved with planning for next season? If yes, do you expect more cost cutting?

Yes we are but it’s too early to judge whether further cutbacks might be necessary. For example, we don’t know what league we will be in. We have a director that attends every 1921 board meeting. The involvement of the Director of Football at these meetings means that the football side of club business is now much more thoroughly discussed, all Directors have an input and a way forward agreed. Before DH was appointed it was unusual for the manager to attend meeting. We believe this to be a much improved situation.

What's your opinion on John Jackson (EWM)? What does he bring to the Holdings meetings that hasn’t been there previously?

We prefer not to comment on individual directors. See below for our comments on EWM more widely.

Further to my question regarding 'what do non-exec Directors do?' at the last meeting, what's your opinion on them?

See above. We prefer not to comment on individuals. We can say that all directors, whether exec or non-exec, are working hard to make the Club viable and sustainable and doing all they can to support the football operation at Brunton Park.

From the outside, it seems your happy to be associated with our owners and have to take the criticism such as the poor state of the ground, poor disabled facilities and poor state of the team. Again, why are you happy being on the Board and associated with this god-awful show?

Our members would rather we were 'in the tent' rather than outside. Again, everyone knows the money isn't available at the moment to vastly improve the state of Brunton Park. However we are playing a leading role in setting up and contributing to discussions with the City Council and others about the viability of a new stadium, as well as exploring options for remaining at Brunton Park. It would be virtually impossible to do that if we were sitting outside, protesting.

Why are the Trust as bad at communicating (if not worse) than the club?

Our communications have developed over recent years. Our members get a weekly email briefing which includes the minutes of our board meetings, we have a weekly column in the News and Star and we hold supporters' surgeries before every Saturday home game when our directors are always available to talk to other fans there, and during matches home and away. We also respond directly to emails. Additionally we have ramped up our social media presence and regularly advertise the email address to Jim Mitchell our 1921 Board rep, who liaises with our other board rep Billy Atkinson (CUFC Holdings). Jim regularly attends the directors' press conferences (indeed he was instrumental along with Billy in getting the Club to hold these in the first place), and we also attend fans' forums and of course we keep in touch with other fans' groups via CUSG meetings. As fans, CUOSC Directors you can be assured, all like talking about Carlisle United at every opportunity.

Can you please get to the bottom of the EWM involvement and do you know/can you find out their plans?

Jim Mitchell was asked about this again at the recent directors' press conference. CUOSC are clear that we would prefer EWM to come out and map out any plans they have for longer term investment, involvement and potential takeover aspirations. But, as Jim made clear, we don't believe they are likely to commit to any new direction in the foreseeable future. In the short term, the backing of EWM, supported by Andrew Jenkins and others, has allowed the Club to carry on competing at League 2 level.

Should supporters be confident in CUOSC and their intentions?

Yes. We only have the club's interest at heart. Our actions in the past, though deemed 'controversial' by some, have always been about protecting the Club and its assets and about ensuring we have as strong a voice as possible for supporters within the Club. We do need to find the next generation of supporter reps and to this end, we would love more diversity on the CUOSC board and are always appealing for fans to put themselves forward.

FINALLY...

CUOSC find it difficult to understand why a small number of people want to constantly criticise groups of fans who love this football club and are trying, in difficult circumstances, to make a difference. Why not engage with these groups and try to work together?

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Last edit: 22 Dec 2018 20:19 by BoardAdmin.

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22 Dec 2018 20:33 #82 by Mullen103
Replied by Mullen103 on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18
“And we are vocal” I know it’s pantomime season but what a stupid comment: oh no they not!

I don’t think it’s a small minority that’s against the trust or criticised them, I think it’s s few hence membership is only at 500. People feel they don’t represent anyone but themselves, go against supporters wishes, don’t communicate, make important decisions without consulting members, shut down a board member for wanting changes, make changes to the constitution without consulting members(to satisfy current board members)

People are cristising the trust as they just not very good!

As for the London branch, I didn’t know much about them really, but there coming out well. Have a fanzine, make T shirts and seem professional and answer questions promptly something the trust don’t do.

There are some that criticise for criticise sake but it’s so easy to do against the trust. The trust could do with involving the London branch for help, as they could learn a lot from them.

At least we’re not Stockport

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22 Dec 2018 23:11 #83 by bruntonpete
Replied by bruntonpete on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18

nobbyblue wrote: What are the longer-term plans for the club? a 5yr plan (User was told that 5yr Plans were mentioned last time but still wanted question asked) including new fans, generating money, seeking investment and ground development, not to mention on field aspirations?

The club’s overall objective remains “working together, building a sustainable and successful club that we can take pride in.”

In overview ... with some simple examples of what that means – just a few examples of initiatives included for illustration:

+ Working together

Bring unity to Club, fans and community.

+ Develop CUSG as a means to:

Involve fans in supporter decisions – priorities for investment /changes.

Help communication direct with supporters – direct first hand access to club (CEO / staff) and facts.

Be more united with fans to address issues – eg SLO, wider diversity of fan participation

Build relations between Shareholders and CUOSC.

To be United in approach to key issues facing the club – share structure changes and new money.

Improve governance and supervision and scrutiny and challenge at board and day-to-day.

Provide fan perspective at the heart of the club.

Provide fans directly with more and detailed information about the club.

+ Monthly press briefings.

+ CUSG meetings and minutes.

+ Financial statement disclosure and information.

+ CUOSC updates.

+ Build relations with fans and wider community.

+ Fans – direct club to fans approach.

+ Business – have a reciprocal approach to business “win-win”.

+ Community groups – wide spread approach eg, charities and voluntary sector - continuous.

+ City Council, FA and Football Foundation - crucial for stadium.

+ Sustainable.

+ Grow and direct as much cash into our Football activities as we can without placing the club in a high risk position.

+ Reduce losses to affordable levels that don’t risk future of the club - reducing the club's risk and reliance on external cash support.

+ Minimise off the field costs – overheads, agents fees, seek business partnerships to reduce costs.

+ Improve financial control and business performance monitoring.

+ Grow underlying contribution (recurring turnover less ongoing non-football costs).

+ Invest effort in fans of the future.

+ Open up new commercial opportunities – new ideas; scoreboard adverts, dug out adds, ball plinth.

+ Bring in new commercial partners – via United for Business and Business Support Network.

+ Improve Academy to produce players to sell and reinvest – improved coaching by investing in Head of Coaching.

+ Recruit and develop players to sell and reinvest.

+ Attract the next generation of fans.

+ Develop Junior Blues – membership and conversion.

+ Free/low pricing for kid and young fans.

+ Open up mascots.

+ Develop and grow Community Ticket scheme.

+ Try new things.

+ Achieve ownership succession – open door approach to any interest, get club financially and operationally fit for sale on and of the field.

+ Fix long term stadium position.

+ Develop facilities that earn income to reinvest and fans want to use and are fit for purpose.

+ Mitigate flood risk as far as possible.

+ Take maximum advantage of DCMS FA Local Football Facility Plan.

+ Successful.

+ Everyone within the club is ambitious to improve and progress on and off the field, and the key priority is success in achieving progress up the football pyramid, starting with promotion to League 1.

+ Maximise use of budget - focusing on first class player coaching, match tactics, player recruitment, team and player preparation and development -not spending. Get more from every pound.

+ Improve on field performance – do the things that bring success.

+ Recruit and retain football staff who share same outlook and approach.

+ Introduce more football expertise to decision making at board level and reduce football risk.

+ Produce home grown players to improve the first team – invest in Academy staffing and coaching.

+ Bring in more football expertise at board level.

+ Pride.

+ Support community wherever we can – make a positive contribution – charity, concerts, etc, Community Sports Trust essential.

+ Be open and inclusive to all fans.

+ Celebrate and acknowledge club history – like memorabilia and new shirt project.

+ Positive approach - Promote positive stories and a can do approach – tinker, try.

All sounds good but words are cheap!


All good ideas but for a plan you need to give time frames too. Then, if not met, you reassess and evaluate again. I'm sure they are doing but they (And the club in general) come across as playing it week by week. So many good ideas but if it takes you 3 years to sort out the mascot task or 8 years to sort out a few pictures in the sporting inn, it isn't right. I'm being flippant and I know a lot of good work is being done, but it comes across as reactive rather than proactive.
For all the negatives, im grateful for this vast improvement in communication this last 12 months even if it isn't from the top office.

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24 Dec 2018 07:54 #84 by Mouldy
Replied by Mouldy on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18
I agree completely. Half the issue is there’s no urgency about anything.

There’s been a new action list introduced by Simon (Chair) and that’s evaluated every meeting so hopefully that will naturally evolve into the standardised time frame - some items need to be far quicker, admittedly.


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24 Dec 2018 09:41 #85 by nobbyblue
Replied by nobbyblue on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18
Nigel Clibbens might be quite an amiable chap but is he doing the job he gets well paid for.
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02 Jan 2019 16:41 #86 by Mullen103
Replied by Mullen103 on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18
Have you had any further responses from the other groups?

Have any groups taken the option to have a login on here

At least we’re not Stockport

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02 Jan 2019 16:55 #87 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18

Mullen103 wrote: Have you had any further responses from the other groups?

Have any groups taken the option to have a login on here


The Trust already post on here pal - they go under the moniker of 'moderator'.

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02 Jan 2019 17:17 - 02 Jan 2019 17:18 #88 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18

Mullen103 wrote: Have you had any further responses from the other groups?

Have any groups taken the option to have a login on here


To press, no. If we don’t receive, we’ll be expressing our disappointment at the next Meeting, and asking that both the non-answering and our disappointment is minuted.

To date, we’ve had no uptake on our offer of logins from any of the Groups. We know some folk involved with some of the groups have individual logins, but those are for their own use, separate from official business of their Groups.

When the new SLO was introduced, again we offered him a login, and he indicated he may use one once he’s got to grips with the role.

Win or Lose, Up The Blues!
Last edit: 02 Jan 2019 17:18 by CCU.

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02 Jan 2019 17:33 - 02 Jan 2019 17:34 #89 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18

munchymagic wrote: The Trust already post on here pal - they go under the moniker of 'moderator'.


I’m not a Member, and can’t say for certain without asking the others, but I’m fairly sure none of the other 4 Mod’s are even Members of CUOSC at present.

Sorry to disappoint you Munchy!

Win or Lose, Up The Blues!
Last edit: 02 Jan 2019 17:34 by CCU.

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02 Jan 2019 19:23 #90 by Mullen103
Replied by Mullen103 on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18
You’re as bad as me for making things up Munchy ;), I disagree with them on a lot of things but they aren’t the trust.

Disappointed but not surprised by the lack of a response by some.

Cusat: To be fair, again, they do arrange away travel so fair play for that but integrating into what Cusg is, I have my doubts. Reading through the minutes the only thing of note is they put forward the disabled ref and asked if we were going to sign anyone. Not sure there were in any position to put anyone forward anyone for a disabled position!!! They didn’t appear at the last meeting and offer nothing for it. They had a great opportunity with the questions asked to open up and dispel clique rumours, shame they never took it. Time to concentrate on away travel and leave this I think.

DSG: Never answered the questions but released a statement via the club that was full of inaccuracies, “tinpottedness” and defensive of the clubs policies. I like Barry and there’s no denying he’s passion and enthusiasm for the club and this position but it’s not working. I went to four dsg committee meetings, offered help on raising funds via grants and becoming a charity. Decisions were being made without asking/going through the committee so I thought what’s the point and stopped going. It just seems like Barry on hes own, asking some friends, to be honest I no longer see the viability of this group or it’s purpose! There needs to be one yes but at the moment it’s just a name without purpose.

The statement ,all committee members weren’t asked to input, and it’s inaccurate. Disability allagability has nothing to do with universal credit and it’s pip/DLA. Maybe if they asked someone that knows it wouldn’t of been the minefieid it was. Two minute job and below is the efls standard.

Receipt of the Standard or Advance rate of the Personal Independence Payment (PIP), (daily living or mobility component).
Receipt of the middle or higher rate of the Disability Living Allowance (mobility or care component).
Receipt of either the Severe Disablement Allowance or Attendance Allowance.
A personal letter from a GP.

Putting the groups name to a statement asking for help/donations for a door lock was embarrassing!

Trust: come out well as they answer questions, albeit I disagree/debate the answers. The critism isn’t to all people helping 95% is directed at the trust as people don’t feel there doing/representing anyone. Again “members agree” without asking. I feel there defensive of critism and can’t see the benefit of opening up.

Londonbranch; breath of fresh air. Professional and came out really well. Used the questions to advantage to promote show what their group does. Shame other groups didn’t and raises suspicions still.

R66 and Scottish supporter, sorry but time to leave the group.

Messageboarders. Some suspicious going on with bans etc since you’ve been. I’d go for now and feel you’ve shook it up and get the reasons of what the group should be.

Club. Despite the critisms they answer questions.

At least we’re not Stockport

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02 Jan 2019 19:35 - 03 Jan 2019 13:44 #91 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18
Just got round to reading all the posts on here re the last meeting.
What stands out is that input varies greatly between the various groups making up CUSG... this may be because the smaller groups are unsure what their role is at these meetings.

As said above am not sure why a group only involved with running supporters buses should be involved. (Noted they've done fund raising in the past with the badges tho)
Q. Do they bring any questions?

This may improve as time goes on.

On CUOSC - their responses are totally acceptable but remain in the difficult position of being asset rich , cash poor. I see they have a fund-raiser coming up soon, with the "profits" going to the Youth Development Dept. (I think) .....playing devils advocate,why should they bother fund raising, if other shareholders don't put in any further funding. ( AJ excepted)

On The London branch, as we all know they hold the title of best, active and most respected supporters group of them all. They have members who are forward looking, enjoy being aligned with other like minded folk, and have existed quietly since 1974 and 100% should be at meetings.

A 3 hour meeting needs to produce more results tho.

To have been born Cumbrian
is to have won the lottery of life !

Last edit: 03 Jan 2019 13:44 by seesaw50.

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02 Jan 2019 19:41 #92 by Mullen103
Replied by Mullen103 on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18
You know what seesaw, i agree with everything you’ve put, well apart from the trusts answers being reasonable.

Maybe Cusg is bringing unity ;)

At least we’re not Stockport
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02 Jan 2019 19:53 #93 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18

Mouldy wrote: I agree completely. Half the issue is there’s no urgency about anything.

There’s been a new action list introduced by Simon (Chair) and that’s evaluated every meeting so hopefully that will naturally evolve into the standardised time frame - some items need to be far quicker, admittedly.


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Is a new score board on the action list ? Certainly no urgency being shown on that. Noticed the neat looking scoreboard at Morecambe yesterday..not huge ,well positioned and sponsored by Heysham Power Station.

Action required for BP

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02 Jan 2019 20:22 - 02 Jan 2019 20:24 #94 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18

seesaw50 wrote:

Mouldy wrote: I agree completely. Half the issue is there’s no urgency about anything.

There’s been a new action list introduced by Simon (Chair) and that’s evaluated every meeting so hopefully that will naturally evolve into the standardised time frame - some items need to be far quicker, admittedly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Is a new score board on the action list ? Certainly no urgency being shown on that. Noticed the neat looking scoreboard at Morecambe yesterday..not huge ,well positioned and sponsored by Heysham Power Station.

Action required for BP


New Scoreboard is on the list, it’s looking like it will appear in the Summer, ready for the new Season.

From the Minutes:

Ground maintenance – Nigel said installation of a new scoreboard/big screen at the Waterworks End was in negotiation for beginning of next season, assuming the Club were not relegated and subject to planning permission. A contract was to be negotiated. Size of screen – circa 18 sq metres.

Win or Lose, Up The Blues!
Last edit: 02 Jan 2019 20:24 by CCU.
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02 Jan 2019 20:51 #95 by tommycoleman1
Replied by tommycoleman1 on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18
The Morecambe scoreboard went blank for a while yesterday

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02 Jan 2019 21:03 #96 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18
It did yes

To have been born Cumbrian
is to have won the lottery of life !

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02 Jan 2019 21:20 #97 by Croydonblue
Replied by Croydonblue on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18
But not for as long as the one at BP!
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02 Jan 2019 21:42 - 02 Jan 2019 21:43 #98 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18

CCU wrote:

munchymagic wrote: The Trust already post on here pal - they go under the moniker of 'moderator'.


I’m not a Member, and can’t say for certain without asking the others, but I’m fairly sure none of the other 4 Mod’s are even Members of CUOSC at present.

Sorry to disappoint you Munchy!


Oh you never disappoint me - of the five of you who sits next to Jenkins for the away games on the team bus?

From what I can gather Mouldy sits (closely) next to Holdsworth.
Last edit: 02 Jan 2019 21:43 by munchymagic.

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02 Jan 2019 21:45 - 02 Jan 2019 21:45 #99 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18
This is worth a read too for folk to see why you lot ban people these days....

boards.footymad.net/showthread.php?t=38234130
Last edit: 02 Jan 2019 21:45 by munchymagic.

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02 Jan 2019 21:53 #100 by Dancingbear
Replied by Dancingbear on topic CUSG Meeting - Mon 17 Dec 18
Im embarrassed for you munchy.

There's only one way of life and that's your own!!!
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