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  3. 17-12-2019 07:30
Now the GE is done and dusted, and with MP’s returning to Parliament today to begin being sworn in, we’ve locked the GE Thread last night, and you can now use this one for any Westminster related stuff.

Anything Brexit related will be moved to the ongoing Brexit Thread!

If you are quoting, please add a link to back it up. Post without and the quote may be removed.

Thanks.

Admin.
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Patel was never going to be sacked for a little bit of bullying. She is perfect for the pretence that the government is tough on immigration and the party of law and order. The last thing Boris wants is someone competent and effective in the job as it would be a threat to his own position. This is why the invisible man Dominic Raab is at the Foreign Office and only allowed out to bleat on about Hong Kong. Sunak is Chancellor while the UK economy implodes. The spending review next week will be grim. Suggestions that Sunak could be the next Prime Minister are laughable. The country will have had its fill of the Tories by the next election and we'll get a minority Labour government assisted by the SNP who'll push for another referendum.
  1. 21-11-2020 10:34
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This go's to show what of bunch of wet weeks some in public service are:

Here is the summary of those findings that has been released by the government:
The Ministerial Code says "ministers should be professional in their working relationships with the civil service and treat all those with whom they come into contact with consideration and respect.
I believe civil servants - particularly senior civil servants - should be expected to handle robust criticism but should not have to face behaviour that goes beyond that.
The home secretary says that she puts great store by professional, open relationships. She is action orientated and can be direct.
The home secretary has also become - justifiably in many instances - frustrated by the Home Office leadership's lack of responsiveness and the lack of support she felt in the Department for International Development (Dfid) three years ago.
The evidence is that this has manifested itself in forceful expression, including some occasions of shouting and swearing.
This may not be done intentionally to cause upset, but that has been the effect on some individuals.
The Ministerial Code says that "harassing, bullying or other inappropriate or discriminating behaviour wherever it takes place is not consistent with the Ministerial Code".
Definitions of harassment concern comments or actions relating to personal characteristics and there is no evidence from the Cabinet Office's work of any such behaviour by the Home Secretary.
The definition of bullying adopted by the Civil Service accepts that legitimate, reasonable and constructive criticism of a worker's performance will not amount to bullying.
It defines bullying as intimidating or insulting behaviour that makes an individual feel uncomfortable, frightened, less respected or put down.
Instances of the behaviour reported to the Cabinet Office would meet such a definition.
The Civil Service itself needs to reflect on its role during this period.
The Home Office was not as flexible as it could have been in responding to the home secretary's requests and direction. She has - legitimately - not always felt supported by the department.
In addition, no feedback was given to the home secretary of the impact of her behaviour, which meant she was unaware of issues that she could otherwise have addressed.
My advice is that the home secretary has not consistently met the high standards required by the Ministerial Code of treating her civil servants with consideration and respect.
Her approach on occasions has amounted to behaviour that can be described as bullying in terms of the impact felt by individuals.
To that extent her behaviour has been in breach of the Ministerial Code, even if unintentionally.
This conclusion needs to be seen in context. There is no evidence that she was aware of the impact of her behaviour, and no feedback was given to her at the time.
The high pressure and demands of the role, in the Home Office, coupled with the need for more supportive leadership from top of the department has clearly been a contributory factor.
In particular, I note the finding of different and more positive behaviour since these issues were raised with her.
  1. 21-11-2020 10:57
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How do you give feedback to a bully?

You don’t, the complaint should go to the person’s superior, in this case Boris.

So, what’s the point?
  1. 21-11-2020 11:31
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This has been blatantly politicised by the likes of Brurnham, Khan, The Mackem Miner, and several other Labour run Councils " we're not going into tier x without the loot from the Government (taxpayers) dosh."


I don't see how that is politicizing anything, they're just saying they need adequate financial support to help individuals and businesses whose income will be affected by the restrictions.

What a world we live in, where asking for enough money to prevent people being homeless and starving to death is seen as "politicizing". That's capitalism for you.


Silent was exactly right.
Burnham's attitude was very much like that idiot across the pond and certainly set the tone for a section of the Manchester public to just put two fingers up and say we will do what we want.
Everywhere is finding things difficult but watching Burnham was like going back to the 70's and 80's.
  1. 21-11-2020 11:39
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How can you expect people to go into restrictions without adequate financial support for the loss of income those restrictions will cause? Attitudes like yours are exactly why we need unions.
  1. 21-11-2020 12:00
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How do you give feedback to a bully?

You don’t, the complaint should go to the person’s superior, in this case Boris.

So, what’s the point?


So, the opposite of that is, what do you do with an institution that flatly refuses to do as they are asked, or even become obstructive ? The guy that got the order of the welly was known as Dr No, and Eyore.

This needed to happen, and to get it done, she needs the support.
  1. 21-11-2020 12:13
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How can you expect people to go into restrictions without adequate financial support for the loss of income those restrictions will cause? Attitudes like yours are exactly why we need unions.


There are unions, and there are unions.
Those that want to work with, and those that look for confrontation.
  1. 21-11-2020 18:11
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What’s your view on the proposed public sector pay freeze Kes?Remember most in the private sector have either had a pay cut, lost their job, or been furloughed

Public sector workers tend to do better than most in a crisis
  1. 21-11-2020 19:07
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What’s your view on the proposed public sector pay freeze Kes?Remember most in the private sector have either had a pay cut, lost their job, or been furloughed

Public sector workers tend to do better than most in a crisis


I'm against it. People in the public sector have risked their lives working on the front line during this pandemic. Freezing their pay now shows a complete lack of respect for all they have done for us. While some in the private sector may be worse off, that doesn't make it right.

Have you any gold in your portfolio?
  1. 21-11-2020 19:13
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Those in the public sector that have risked their own well-being to deliver nursing (for example) during the pandemic deserve a pay rise. There are plenty of others in the same sector that for one reason or another, don't.
  1. 21-11-2020 19:19
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The problem is, several Labour Councils have gone bust. So,no money for public services unless the Tory Government steps in and takes over.

The pandemic was not the main reason, simply the straw that broke the Camels back.

Is it reasonable to expect you and I to bail out failed left wing Councils due to the Councillors being a bunch of wxxkers ?

Answers on a postage stamp to:

Kes...

C/o Pioneer Ltd
  1. 21-11-2020 19:43
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Most people in the public sector have been working from home-not on the ‘front line’ eg HMRC.What on earth makes them more deserving than the rest of us?

As noted, left wing Croydon council went bust because they were spending our money trying to be capitalists.

Have a read about Arch in Northumberland.They used taxpayer cash to buy a shopping centre in Cramlington at the height of the market 3 years ago for £80m-its now worth £40m if that.It’s our money these councils are pissing away
  1. 21-11-2020 21:59
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Most people in the public sector have been working from home-not on the ‘front line’ eg HMRC.What on earth makes them more deserving than the rest of us?


I think lots of people in the private sector deserve a pay rise too. It's not about being "more deserving" although capitalism does seem to encourage the working class to see it that way and fight among themselves. For example workers in one industry campaigning for better wages are shunned by workers in a different industry because "My job isn't giving me a raise so why should you get one". When instead they should be joining forces and campaigning for better wages for all workers.
  1. 21-11-2020 22:34
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I don't think it is the right time for anyone to be getting a rise.
Those still in work should be thankful they still have a job, as many others have lost theirs or been furloughed.
The huge debt will surely need to be repaid, but you would like to think that some of those undervalued and underpaid key workers whether private or public would receive a rise once things start to stabilise.
  1. 21-11-2020 23:30
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Those still in work should be thankful they still have a job


I disagree. People need jobs to survive. The right to work should be seen as an entitlement for all, not something you should be grateful for.


The huge debt will surely need to be repaid, but you would like to think that some of those undervalued and underpaid key workers whether private or public would receive a rise once things start to stabilise.


Let's take $149 billion from Bezos then. That should help repay it, and it still leaves him with $1 billion, far more money than anyone realistically needs.
  1. 22-11-2020 07:53
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Isn’t that called theft.

Kes-with inflation at next to nothing, pay rises aren’t really first in the queue.

You sound like you have one of those money trees.Can I have one?
  1. 22-11-2020 08:13
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Isn’t that called theft.


If I took your wallet, would it be "theft" for you to take it back?


Kes-with inflation at next to nothing, pay rises aren’t really first in the queue.


Does that apply to the rich as well? Because these shareholders are wanting more money, what do you think we should tell them?

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/nov/22/so-bank-shareholders-are-squealing-for-their-dividends-they-should-be-ignored
  1. 22-11-2020 08:20
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Also Laffy, a couple of people in the Coronavirus thread seemed to have an issue with a socialist saving money. In your opinion is there anything wrong with it? Should they only invest in specific ways or funds, similar to the way some Muslims do sharia banking because of their cultures rules on interest?
  1. 22-11-2020 08:27
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Kes

Your sounding like a 21st century Bob Geldhof-who I might add is being savaged for a piece in the Times today about foreign aid cuts-this from Saint Bob who is a grade A tax avoider.

There are certain things I don’t invest in-money lenders like Amigo, Wonga and such like.Making money off the backs of the less fortunate is out of bounds
  1. 22-11-2020 13:00
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There are certain things I don’t invest in-money lenders like Amigo, Wonga and such like.Making money off the backs of the less fortunate is out of bounds


I agree. Are ethical funds in particular you would recommend for me that I can have a look at?
  1. 22-11-2020 13:44
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Chancellor says plans will mean more money for health, education and police, as unions refuse to rule out strikes

Asked if about the possibility of going on strike over the issue, the head of the TUC federation of trade unions, Frances O’Grady, refused to rule it out.

She told Sky’s Sophy Ridge on Sunday: “I’m really conscious of the feeling out there that governments only seem to recognise the true value of labour when it’s withdrawn ... Nobody can rule anything out at the moment but what I am saying and asking for is that the government stands by key workers, respects the contribution they are continuing to make and recognises that this is absolutely the wrong time to be talking about pay cuts.”
References
  1. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/22/rishi-sunak-says-public-sector-pay-freeze-is-not-a-return-to-austerity
  1. 23-11-2020 04:37
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Nivver mind all this "all property is theft" bollox, when's this oven-ready easiest deal in history brexit agreement happening? They've got about 4 weeks considering everyone knocks off for xmas about the 21st
  1. 23-11-2020 09:53
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A freeze on public salary's and incomes is not only needed, but its the worm to hook a way to re-election.

The predictable Unions will of course threaten and may well strike, and that is exactly what the Government expects.

In general, the people have had a gutfull of left-wing attitudes, it has got them nowhere, and all striking will do is alienate the voting public.

From the Government's side, job done.
  1. 23-11-2020 11:16
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I dunno silentone. The clap for carers was rather popular so some unions could use It to their advantage. My wife works doing distanced learning for carehome staff etc. She’s resigned to not getting a pay rise and is rather happy she’s been allowed to work right through. She thinks her students on the coal face so to speak are deserving of one though.
  1. 23-11-2020 11:30
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In general, the people have had a gutfull of left-wing attitudes, it has got them nowhere, and all striking will do is alienate the voting public.


And this is an entirely self defeating attitude that just results in a race to the bottom. Workers turning on each other like crabs in a bucket, "I'm not getting a pay rise so you shouldn't either". Instead they should be uniting and fighting for better pay for all. I genuinely don't understand why people often act against their own interests. Surely you could always do with a pay rise, so why do you oppose it, why are you hostile to those who fight to try and make it happen? If the unions were successful, you would be better off financially.
  1. 23-11-2020 11:31
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I dunno silentone. The clap for carers was rather popular so some unions could use It to their advantage. My wife works doing distanced learning for carehome staff etc. She’s resigned to not getting a pay rise and is rather happy she’s been allowed to work right through. She thinks her students on the coal face so to speak are deserving of one though.


Still a tough one to use:

"What is the average salary for a Nurse? The Royal College of Nursing have estimated that the average annual salary of an NHS Nurse is £33,384. More broadly, we estimate that the average salary for a Nurse is somewhere between £33,000 and £35,000."

"In 2019, the UK's median earnings went up by 2.9 per cent, meaning that the average person took home about £585 per week, which works out at around £30,420 a year."
  1. 23-11-2020 11:55
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Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I dunno silentone. The clap for carers was rather popular so some unions could use It to their advantage. My wife works doing distanced learning for carehome staff etc. She’s resigned to not getting a pay rise and is rather happy she’s been allowed to work right through. She thinks her students on the coal face so to speak are deserving of one though.


Still a tough one to use:

"What is the average salary for a Nurse? The Royal College of Nursing have estimated that the average annual salary of an NHS Nurse is £33,384. More broadly, we estimate that the average salary for a Nurse is somewhere between £33,000 and £35,000."

"In 2019, the UK's median earnings went up by 2.9 per cent, meaning that the average person took home about £585 per week, which works out at around £30,420 a year."


That’s one example. I’ll bet not many care home staff come close to the median.
  1. 23-11-2020 12:25
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Kessler take a look at the 70s and 80s and see how that went . LMc and his action to remove funding to the labour party because he didntlike where they were going added to his comments regarding AC prettymuch show he is from those days . A bit like your handle from the tv program Secret Army which is similar era
  1. 23-11-2020 13:18
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Dollar is down by 0.3% today, suggests investors are showing more confidence in riskier assets like equities. You have any US treasuries Laffy?
References
  1. https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2020/nov/23/stock-markets-astrazeneca-vaccine-trial-covid-19-ftse-uk-economy-eurozone-business-live
  1. 23-11-2020 14:12
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  1. 23-11-2020 14:33
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Kes

Already told you I but stocks, not Funds.I also don’t buy outside UK-own back yard policy
  1. 23-11-2020 17:44
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Kes

Already told you I but stocks, not Funds.I also don’t buy outside UK-own back yard policy


I forgot. Few links for you to have a look at on the subject of home country bias
References
  1. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/home-country-bias.asp
  2. https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamsarhan/2018/04/10/do-you-suffer-from-home-country-bias/
  1. 23-11-2020 17:47
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This parliament sitting is brilliant, fantastic!

Human faith being restored by sensible MPs against lockdown and this tier bollocks!

Boris expected it would be passed easily but it’ll very close. Starmer being a wimp but loads of Labour MPS going against the government as well as Tory rebels!
  1. 01-12-2020 16:11
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This speech will go down in history - https://twitter.com/emmakennytv/status/1333779800805163010?s=21

Ripping the impact assessment to pieces!

Governments buggered, hopefully it won’t go through.

Bloke, Steve Baker MP, on now going on about data modelling and the GB plan. Absolutely brilliant done his research.

This is brilliant!
  1. 01-12-2020 16:15
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Another great speech!

https://twitter.com/desmondswayne/status/1333798905553666049?s=21

This might not pass tonight!
  1. 01-12-2020 16:39
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I see the opposition are doing a Brexit, sitting on there hands.
  1. 01-12-2020 17:07
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ccu
Site Admin
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This might not pass tonight!


Sailed through - 291 to 78
  1. 01-12-2020 19:32
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This might not pass tonight!


Sailed through - 291 to 78


Wouldn’t say sailed, 351 didn’t back it.

78 stood up for our liberties and against this draconian system. 291 voted to kill our hospitality sector, kill jobs, and kill businesses.
  1. 01-12-2020 19:58
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Or 78 able to make a hollow gesture to appease their constituents safe in the knowledge Labour was abstaining.

Sorry if that bursts your bubble thinking you'd recruited a new legion to your radical cause. Guessing your email with those youtube videos will have got caught in the parliamentary spam filter anyway
  1. 01-12-2020 20:29
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Appeasing their constituents is what their elected to do!

Did you watch the debate, I did, the only ones making any sense and providing data were the ones opposing it.

Wankcock though said the alternative was a national lockdown, not freedom, so the vote was pointless in the end.
  1. 01-12-2020 20:36
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Starmer obviously agreed but was scared to admit it incase he upset Mcluskey and the voters even more
  1. 01-12-2020 20:37
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