1. BoardAdmin
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  3. 17-12-2019 07:30
Now the GE is done and dusted, and with MP’s returning to Parliament today to begin being sworn in, we’ve locked the GE Thread last night, and you can now use this one for any Westminster related stuff.

Anything Brexit related will be moved to the ongoing Brexit Thread!

If you are quoting, please add a link to back it up. Post without and the quote may be removed.

Thanks.

Admin.
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Yes Jeff, of course, I know them all personally, so it’s all my fault.

I’d like to apologise, personally, to all messageboarders. I’ve let you and myself down. What was I thinking.
  1. 04-09-2020 09:50
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  3. # 951
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So you worked on getting the glasgow neck stabber and the reading LGBTQ neck stabber into the country??

Why didn't you do more checks on their beliefs or backgrounds?

Shame on you.

I don't know best I know law and order and common sense. And i bet the majority of folk on here that don't talk out on politics agree with me.

You know the silent majority that has won the past 3 elections.


The silent majority wins every election you muppet. That’s the way elections work in this country.
  1. 04-09-2020 09:59
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  3. # 952
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You worked is asylum right?? You know without any doubt that all 96 are from Syria.

Glasgow neck stabber was from Sudan.

Reading gay neck stabber was from Libya.

So How many do you suggest we let in seen as though we are an island with limited resources?
  1. 04-09-2020 10:02
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  3. # 953
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No I don’t know that for certain Jeff because I’m now retired, but there’s clue here...

https://www.cumbria.gov.uk/refugees/faqs.asp

Pull down the tabs and have a read. But you’re taking about the ones in Cumbria, and now introducing others elsewhere from Libya and Sudan. The bloke in Glasgow was an asylum seeker described as “unhinged”. The one in Reading was a refugee who came here after the war inn Libya and mental health issues were considered to have played a part in the attack. I’m sorry that I didn’t know either of these men, and equally sorry that I’m not a psychiatrist.

How many do we let in? I’m in favour of a points-based system so that we allow immigration according to need, but we also need to have the Home Office working more consistently with the DWP and Dept of Education to plan more intelligently. If you’re talking about asylum seekers, we should take our share.
  1. 04-09-2020 10:38
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Hahaha all these Islamists committing jihad all seem to have mental health issues.

Stop pandering for the jihadis and think about keeping our country safe.
  1. 04-09-2020 11:24
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  3. # 955
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OK Jeff. What would you do about:

A. Immigration
B. Asylum seekers
C. Economic migrants

???
  1. 04-09-2020 13:07
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  3. # 956
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Jeff you seem to forget that the Brexit vote was won by a minority vote of the total electorate. Question for you ....what is the difference to us in Cumbria whether we are governed by Brussels or London? Neither gives a stuff about remote regions like us. Nothing matters to our "government" unless its inside the M25 and benefits London.
  1. 04-09-2020 19:37
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ccu
Site Admin
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Jeff you seem to forget that the Brexit vote was won by a minority vote of the total electorate.


It was won by majority of those who could be bothered to vote you mean?
  1. 04-09-2020 19:44
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Yes thats exactly what I mean. Several millions didnt bother either because they couldnt be arsed or they thought that they didnt need to because the other side would win anyway. We have left the EU but we still dont have a clue what the future holds and no one in our so called government knows either. They really couldnt organise a piss up in a brewery.
  1. 04-09-2020 21:28
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Although I don’t have much faith in this government, the main commentators that I read much earlier in the year (before lockdown) were warning that we were unlikely to have even the start of an agreement before the end of October with amendments being made right up to the wire. I mean, the way that both sides will see it is what’s the point of having negotiators if they stop negotiating in August, when that can try and get more concessions for another four months. It could be another three months before this is sorted out. Stop panicking!
  1. 04-09-2020 22:39
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Arragorn

Cry me a river, oh.
cry me a river.- justin Timberlake. Great song.

Wipe yours away and get on with your life.
  1. 05-09-2020 07:45
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You going to answer my questions Jeff?
  1. 05-09-2020 07:50
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Already have Griff.

If you read my replies back to you it's quite obvious what my stance is.

You were too busy trying to justify neck stabbers
  1. 05-09-2020 08:13
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Nothing matters to our "government" unless its inside the M25 and benefits London.


Pre-Covid I'd have agreed with you Arragorn but things have changed massively. London was the driver of UK growth so it made sense to focus investment there with HS2, Crossrail etc. Now London is seen as enemy held territory with no chance in my lifetime of seeing another Tory Mayor. Covid has a been a revolution, one that has damaged city hubs irreparably. Khan the Mayor has been burbling on about the need for Crossrail 2, the Bakerloo line extension, the DLR extension to Thamesmead. Forget it sonny there is no possible economic case for encouraging new commuting routes into central London post-Covid. The big question is whether there will be a rebalancing to the regions or will London just collapse and the UK becomes much poorer as a result. The government is clueless but also probably now helpless to withstand the massive structural changes now happening in the UK economy. What happens with Brexit is almost irrelevant but Boris will do his preparation in the car going to the final crunch meeting some time after Christmas and some sort of deal will be done.
  1. 05-09-2020 08:15
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  3. # 964
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Already have Griff.

If you read my replies back to you it's quite obvious what my stance is.

You were too busy trying to justify neck stabbers


It would be handy if you could put them all in one place, and although you’ve complained about asylum seekers and economic migrants I don’t think that you’ve come up with ideas about what should happen to them, whether here or on their way here. Oh, and you’re wrong to twist my words so please stop that. I wasn’t/can’t “justify” stabbing EVER, but I was trying to explain what the authorities thought lay behind them. You seem to be trying to label me as a liberal, but I’m not. Just because I try and give an explanation doesn’t mean that I’m in favour of it.

Off you go then.
  1. 05-09-2020 08:56
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  3. # 965
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What should we do about ILLEGAL immigrants? Erm maybe samend them back to where they came from. They've broken the law getting here chances are they'll do it again to our soft touch country.

Since when did the whole world become our problem?? 65 million people and our social services are already bursting at the seems.

You should maybe stop taking the authorities word about things. Go think for yourself. Youd thinknthey were all pregnant woman and young children when in reality they basically all young men.

Uncontrolled mass migration brings many problems, neck stabbers being one of many.

You heard of Emily jones before?? Chances are you haven't.
But you'll of heard of career criminal Saint George floyd from other side of the world
  1. 05-09-2020 09:37
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  3. # 966
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-52739911

Incase you missed it.

George Floyd endless coverage.

This little girl in our country, a few paragraphs.

Stop listening to the authorities.
  1. 05-09-2020 09:52
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  3. # 967
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Jeff, you still haven't answered Griff's question when he asked you what you would do about Immigration, Asylum seekers and Economic migrants.The only thing you have said is 'Erm maybe samend them back to where they came from' - this probably says it all to be honest.
As for asking for Griff to think for himself. I think everyone reading the recent posts can tell who is capable of thinking for themselves and who is being led by non fact checked bull**** from random keyboard warriors with their own agendas.
  1. 05-09-2020 10:05
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Oh you wanting to call me racist for wanting ILLEGAL immigrants out of my country.

What part of ILLEGAL do you not understand??

Imagine what all the BAME people that came here LEGALLY are thinking. They'll be the most pissed off.

Non fact checked bullshit AKA not the authorities narrative.
  1. 05-09-2020 10:11
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  3. # 969
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What should we do about ILLEGAL immigrants? Erm maybe samend them back to where they came from. They've broken the law getting here chances are they'll do it again to our soft touch country.

Since when did the whole world become our problem?? 65 million people and our social services are already bursting at the seems.

You should maybe stop taking the authorities word about things. Go think for yourself. Youd thinknthey were all pregnant woman and young children when in reality they basically all young men.

Uncontrolled mass migration brings many problems, neck stabbers being one of many.

You heard of Emily jones before?? Chances are you haven't.
But you'll of heard of career criminal Saint George floyd from other side of the world

Where do you send them back to Jeff? The French won’t have them and unless you can prove conclusively that It was the France authorities that put them on boats and pointed them at England then if you try and sent them back there you would be in breach of a number of international laws. So what do you do?
  1. 05-09-2020 10:33
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  3. # 970
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From which ever nation they are from.

Illegal bad.

Legal good.

Is that a bit easier for you to understand?

I've never seen people so pity full of illegal immigrants before. It's almost as if you get all your news from the also apologetic mainstream media.
  1. 05-09-2020 10:39
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Yes thats exactly what I mean. Several millions didnt bother either because they couldnt be arsed or they thought that they didnt need to because the other side would win anyway. We have left the EU but we still dont have a clue what the future holds and no one in our so called government knows either. They really couldnt organise a piss up in a brewery.


Surely what we are witnessing with the assylam/migrants/economic migrant seekers is everything that is wrong with the EU. They sat on their hands during the Kosovo/Serbia ethnic cleansing and slaughter, and they have sat on their hands during this crises. Hungary are part of Schengen, although a member, stuck two fingers up to the EU and build a Border fence to stop illegal migrants, so on the one hand Merkel is saying come to Germany while Hungary cut migration by 99% !

Way to many Political agenda's for the EU to work outside of a closed shop for goods. In future the issues over EU standards/tariffs/trade will sail out the window when the fall out from Covid really start to hit home, and survival becomes No1 on the agenda. Then you will see the Anglo French/German Empire start to crumble as unemployment go's through the roof, and everyone has to tighten the purse strings. The first to suffer will be the poor and those requiring aid.

It's the stuff wars are made of..............
  1. 05-09-2020 10:46
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  3. # 972
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From which ever nation they are from.

Illegal bad.

Legal good.

Is that a bit easier for you to understand?

I've never seen people so pity full of illegal immigrants before. It's almost as if you get all your news from the also apologetic mainstream media.


At last, Jeff, just what I expected. And I understand you perfectly. The rallying call of all little-Englanders; “send them back where they came from”.

Easy to say, impossible to carry out in the vast majority of cases. I’m not sure how you’d do it, if you were in charge, but here’s the problems you’d encounter.

Asylum seekers and economic migrants who reach these shores don’t want to go back, they want to stay here. We used to reckon that only 10% of asylum seekers were genuine, and some more were given status after appeal, but we were left with 80% or so who we had to get rid of. Sounds easy but it isn’t.

The best way of trying to remain here if you aren’t a genuine asylum seeker, or an economic migrant without entry clearance, is to lie. You claim to be from somewhere else; a country with war or famine or where there is persecution of your kind, or the kind you pretend to be. The best way of doing all of that is to destroy all your paperwork - birth and marriage certificates, passports, correspondence, anything which shows where you are actually from. The English Channel and aircraft chemical toilets are full of this stuff. So, tens of thousands of people are here, have their claim for asylum or other leave to remain refused and have to be removed, because virtually none of them agree to go under their own steam. But where do you send them?

Even if you could prove where that are actually from (Embassy staff abroad are particularly useful for this) you then need to get a travel document from their country of origin. That’s where the fun starts. It used to take more than 3 years to get a passport from the Indian authorities and they were actually quite good. Other countries simply decided that if a person didn’t want to stay there, why should they have him/her back? They could eventually be arm-twisted into accepting the person, but years would pass and the numbers were small. In the majority of cases you couldn’t prove where they were from, so what would you have done Jeff?

I don’t blame other countries from being cautious. Imagine a foreign national who wanted to come to the UK. He devises a plan and goes to the French authorities and tells them a story in which he is British, and fleeing from persecution in the UK, having left quickly and lost all his paperwork. Of course, his claim would be quickly refused, but the French authorities would be left trying to send him to the UK, which is actually what he wants. Should we take him in, without question? Of course not, because he was telling a pack of lies in the first place so we’d tell the French to forget it. It’s the same here, with the failed asylum seekers and economic migrants. We’re stuck with them.

So, Jeff, the next time you say to send them back, it’s a great idea, but flawed from the ground up.

It’s also why we put most of our energies into stopping them getting here in the first place, though with the meagre resources given to protecting out borders, we’re fighting a losing battle.
  1. 06-09-2020 10:18
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  3. # 973
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
From which ever nation they are from.

Illegal bad.

Legal good.

Is that a bit easier for you to understand?

I've never seen people so pity full of illegal immigrants before. It's almost as if you get all your news from the also apologetic mainstream media.


At last, Jeff, just what I expected. And I understand you perfectly. The rallying call of all little-Englanders; “send them back where they came from”.

Easy to say, impossible to carry out in the vast majority of cases. I’m not sure how you’d do it, if you were in charge, but here’s the problems you’d encounter.

Asylum seekers and economic migrants who reach these shores don’t want to go back, they want to stay here. We used to reckon that only 10% of asylum seekers were genuine, and some more were given status after appeal, but we were left with 80% or so who we had to get rid of. Sounds easy but it isn’t.

The best way of trying to remain here if you aren’t a genuine asylum seeker, or an economic migrant without entry clearance, is to lie. You claim to be from somewhere else; a country with war or famine or where there is persecution of your kind, or the kind you pretend to be. The best way of doing all of that is to destroy all your paperwork - birth and marriage certificates, passports, correspondence, anything which shows where you are actually from. The English Channel and aircraft chemical toilets are full of this stuff. So, tens of thousands of people are here, have their claim for asylum or other leave to remain refused and have to be removed, because virtually none of them agree to go under their own steam. But where do you send them?

Even if you could prove where that are actually from (Embassy staff abroad are particularly useful for this) you then need to get a travel document from their country of origin. That’s where the fun starts. It used to take more than 3 years to get a passport from the Indian authorities and they were actually quite good. Other countries simply decided that if a person didn’t want to stay there, why should they have him/her back? They could eventually be arm-twisted into accepting the person, but years would pass and the numbers were small. In the majority of cases you couldn’t prove where they were from, so what would you have done Jeff?

I don’t blame other countries from being cautious. Imagine a foreign national who wanted to come to the UK. He devises a plan and goes to the French authorities and tells them a story in which he is British, and fleeing from persecution in the UK, having left quickly and lost all his paperwork. Of course, his claim would be quickly refused, but the French authorities would be left trying to send him to the UK, which is actually what he wants. Should we take him in, without question? Of course not, because he was telling a pack of lies in the first place so we’d tell the French to forget it. It’s the same here, with the failed asylum seekers and economic migrants. We’re stuck with them.

So, Jeff, the next time you say to send them back, it’s a great idea, but flawed from the ground up.

It’s also why we put most of our energies into stopping them getting here in the first place, though with the meagre resources given to protecting out borders, we’re fighting a losing battle.




However, in reality we are not stuck with them, we are entitled to send them back to France under the Dublin Agreement.

But, the unanswered question is, why do they want to leave France ? They offer asylum seekers the same benefits (or better) than the UK.
  1. 06-09-2020 10:39
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  3. # 974
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[censored] me Griff you been up all night researching?

Little englander? What are you talking about? Just call me racist, I know your dieing to. I'm a proud english man, what's your problem?


Only a lefty looney would call someone a little englander for wanting ILEGALS out of the country.
  1. 06-09-2020 11:04
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  3. # 975
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The French make life so uncomfortable for them as opposed to the way we mollycoddle them. As you said regarding the Dublin agreement the French have to take them back. The loony liberals will not be happy but that's tough on them. Land them give them a cup of tea and stick them on the next available ferry
  1. 06-09-2020 11:34
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  3. # 976
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The French make life so uncomfortable for them as opposed to the way we mollycoddle them. As you said regarding the Dublin agreement the French have to take them back. The loony liberals will not be happy but that's tough on them. Land them give them a cup of tea and stick them on the next available ferry


I think you may find, the early one's from the Calais Jungle did not qualify for political assylam, and many crossing in boats today will be the same.

The Greeks are now breaking International Law and are either stopping boats and turning them around, or if they make the crossing, picking them up and returning them from where they came.

We have a certain responsibility to Iraqi's and Syrians, we bombed the sxxt out of them.
  1. 06-09-2020 11:45
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  3. # 977
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We have responsibilities for homeless and child poverty in our own country.

Not think we should start with that before inviting half the world over??

Bet these homeless war veterans wouldn't mind a kushty 4* hotel that these ILEGALS are in.

But by sounds of it your a progressive liberal who will think what I just said is racist.

'We' didn't bomb them, tony Blair and his lie of weapons of mass destruction bombed them
  1. 06-09-2020 12:02
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So first in Birmingham we had 56 of your precious asylum seekers testing positive for covid and had to be shipped out of their tax paying funded hostel.

And now we have another neck stabber of gays at large after a rampage of neck stabbings last night.

No description of the man yet but my guess is that hes not a 'little englander' and is probably a follower of the religion of peace.
  1. 06-09-2020 12:52
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  3. # 979
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Jeff, no research necessary, I’m talking from experience. I want Illegals out of the country too, and I was just telling you how difficult that is. I don’t think that’s a racist view, merely pragmatic. And we don’t invite half the world over, we agreed to take a certain number from the camps which I think is our moral responsibility as the world’s 5th or 6th biggest economy. I agree though that we can’t take the 75,000 or so that were coming every year when I was involved. Oh, and only a small number are put into swish hotels, usually as a temporary stopgap, and I’m sure that you can find some examples. Most though are housed by accommodation providers contracted to find low-quality but serviceable accommodation, and by some local authorities on similar contracts. Hostels and hotels that have seen better days can be included, but it’s usually old HIMO stock. Think student accommodation but worse. Anyway, I’m not a progressive liberal, far from it.

You have to be careful with the French. If you send them straight back on a ferry they’re likely to refuse to let them land until the courts tell them to and we’ll be left with the scenario that a few potential immigrants faced a few decades ago where they lived on ferries for weeks, going back and forth because no-one would take them. The ones coming over from France are the current problem but I was talking generically because they’re not the only ones.
  1. 06-09-2020 13:15
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So first in Birmingham we had 56 of your precious asylum seekers testing positive for covid and had to be shipped out of their tax paying funded hostel.

And now we have another neck stabber of gays at large after a rampage of neck stabbings last night.

No description of the man yet but my guess is that hes not a 'little englander' and is probably a follower of the religion of peace.



I love the smell of assumption in the morning.

Far-right Little englanders are exactly the ones who go in for attacking gays:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42920765

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_London_nail_bombings
  1. 06-09-2020 13:25
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  3. # 981
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Assumption? Just using past knowledge of mass stabbers in this country which seem to be from the same background.

I'd post every jihadi or planned jihadi attack in exchange but there isn't enough hours in the day.

The fact you've got to go back 22 years says it all really.

How many 'far right little englander' attacks this year? I can name 2 (probably 3) jihadi attacks from the top of my head.


I'll wait while you Google it.....
  1. 06-09-2020 13:41
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You’re right in a way, Jeff, because there are many examples of Muslim terrorism in the UK. And in France, Germany, Spain etc. Oh, and in Syria, Iran, the Lebanon etc. All over the world in fact. There are many examples of right wing terrorism too, as orc says, all over the world. The problem isn’t Muslims, or all folk with right-wing views, the problem is the extremists who resort to violence. People cause trouble in nightclubs, but just because one person might become a bit aggressive does that mean stopping everybody coming into the club. If you put a terrorist and 99 normal people side by side, how do you tell which is the terrorist? Who is the mass-stabber? You seem to think that everything is easy, just stop illegal immigration. You can’t.
  1. 06-09-2020 13:57
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You can change the law with an 80 seat majority to stop them but this government is finding it hard to do that.


Do what Tony abbott done in australlia then that would be problem sorted.

Job lined up, money in the bank and tough background checks. Then chances are we wouldn't of let any of the bad eggs in.

You can start with deporting/ jailing everyone on the terror watch list.
Theres a good chance this one in Birmingham is on it aswell.

Do you know how many refugees Poland has taken in?
And do you know how many terror attacks they have had?

Really makes you think if this 'diversity is our strength' nonsense was really worth it.
  1. 06-09-2020 15:03
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job lined up, money in the bank and tough background checks.


That’s the legal ones Jeff and, as I said, I’m in favour of a points based-system.
  1. 06-09-2020 20:00
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Yes and the ilegal ones should be deported or in jail for breaking the law.
  1. 06-09-2020 16:22
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Hold on Jeff, one minute you’re complaining about keeping them in “tax paying funded hostels”, and now you’re proposing deporting them, which proves you haven’t read a word that I posted above, or putting them in prison - also paid for by the tax-payers of the UK and much more expensive.

Have you really thought this through?
  1. 06-09-2020 16:50
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I wasnt 'complaining' about keeping them anywhere, i was was stating the fact that they had been moved out of their tax payers funded hostels.

I am 'complaining' that they are here in the first place, you know, because they are ilegal.

Have you really read my messages all the way through?
  1. 06-09-2020 17:58
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I have Jeff, and I think you want the moon on a stick. If you’re complaining that they’re here in the first place, how do you keep the illegals out? I really want to hear your solutions, Jeff, because illegals have been coming here since the Vikings.
  1. 06-09-2020 18:16
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By deporting every ilegal.

Do try read them twice through next time.
  1. 06-09-2020 18:30
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Here I'll put it into children's text again for you.

Legal- good, can stay.

Ilegal- bad, have to leave.
  1. 06-09-2020 18:32
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Send the buggers back
  1. 06-09-2020 18:54
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Jeff. Speaking from experience, and in about 80% of cases......

YOU

CAN’T

SEND

THEM

BACK.

I’ve spoken to folk like you before, people who think it’s as simple as hiring ferries and planes and dumping them in France, or countries further east. You can’t do it.

However many times you say send them back YOU CAN’T.

Now, what’s your solution.
  1. 06-09-2020 19:09
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  3. # 993
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And for those that could be sent back you get the legal aid funded human rights lawyers blocking their deportation. So in most cases they dont go back and just vanish into the black economy.
  1. 06-09-2020 19:24
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My solution was, if you read my messages, was to change the law with the 80 seat majority they've got..

Hard work you griff
  1. 06-09-2020 19:31
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You cannot send them back if the country you are trying to send them to wont accept them. In that case you are stuck with them. Doesnt matter how many laws you change.
  1. 06-09-2020 19:37
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Never heard of a country that doesn't allow it's own citizens back in
  1. 06-09-2020 19:47
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Hostels? There's thousands of them currently being put up in top hotels all over the UK.

  1. 06-09-2020 20:03
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Yep that news title just shows how out of touch the British press are.

The fact they delete comments is distgusting. I doubt they're threatening each other with violence in the comments, it'll just be because it's going against there narrative.

Don't call them the most untrusted news in europe for nothing
  1. 06-09-2020 20:45
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