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  3. 17-12-2019 07:30
Now the GE is done and dusted, and with MP’s returning to Parliament today to begin being sworn in, we’ve locked the GE Thread last night, and you can now use this one for any Westminster related stuff.

Anything Brexit related will be moved to the ongoing Brexit Thread!

If you are quoting, please add a link to back it up. Post without and the quote may be removed.

Thanks.

Admin.
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Jeff I have rapidly come to the conclusion that in your opinion everyone is wrong but you. Either that or you are the biggest wind up merchant here.
Where a lot of these so called economic migrants / illegal immigrants come from their countries dont want them back.
  1. 06-09-2020 21:39
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Sorry Arragorn for wanting functional borders
  1. 06-09-2020 22:34
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Ta Aragorn. Jeff is like a lot of others with the same views. It’s so easy to say “send them back” and that will solve all of our immigration problems, without thinking through how that can be achieved. None of this is easy though and, as I see it, the only answer is more effective border control, with better targeted foreign aid, and vigorous diplomatic activity aimed at preventing the large-scale departure of economic migrants from abroad. We’ve done that before and it worked for a while because we offered trade incentives. Not sure those are available at present though.

All this costs money. Beefing up border control will be expensive and foreign aid is contentious. Not a vote-winner either.

Still, at least Jeff hasn’t resorted to “they’re over here taking all our jobs”. Yet.
  1. 06-09-2020 22:37
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Jeff is like a lot of others with the same views


yeah like the majority of the country

Lol

Only the fringe minority would be wound up over what I've said.

Griff you need to stop commenting your embarrassing yourself.
  1. 07-09-2020 09:06
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Their countries don't want them back


what?, so like they've been deported?
So a country can change its laws to deport people they 'don't want back'

Lol

you 2 are gifts that keep giving
  1. 07-09-2020 09:08
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I doubt that the majority of the country holds your views, Jeff. Simply saying “send them back“ solves nothing. You have no coherent, believable or achievable answer to the problem. Time to wind it back in Jeff.

Night.
  1. 06-09-2020 23:01
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Pretty sure majority of folk would be in favour of sending ilegals back.
  1. 06-09-2020 23:56
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Jeff, so far I’ve given detailed explanations and some ideas which won't solve the problems completely (nothing can) but could help. You haven’t done either of those things, resorting to soundbytes like “stop them coming” and “send them back”. However, you seem pretty certain than that those things are possible, so I think I’ve sussed out who you are now. It’s one of two people. You’re either Gandalf or Harry Potter.
  1. 07-09-2020 08:07
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Turn the page Griff i don't want to embarrass you on your silly minority stance on people breaking the law.

Bet you were up all night wondering how that little englander ever got the better of me. Lol

Your ethier a very weak old man or your just borderline retarded.
  1. 07-09-2020 09:09
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Can we not just drop them back off in the middle of the channel? Nearer to the French side obviously so they’d be better off trying to swim there.
  1. 07-09-2020 10:21
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Turn the page Griff i don't want to embarrass you on your silly minority stance on people breaking the law.

Bet you were up all night wondering how that little englander ever got the better of me. Lol

Your ethier a very weak old man or your just borderline retarded.




Sorry to burst your bubble Jeff, but if they claim asylum, and 99% of them do, they’re not breaking the law. Nice try though. Wave your wand and try again.
  1. 07-09-2020 10:26
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Oh, and Jeff, I’m not embarrassed. Constantly writing “they’re illegal, send them back” marks you out as a repeater of bland statements without an answer. I’ve been trying to make you think about a complex problem and challenging you to come up with solutions. I’ve asked you for an answer several times, but you seem to be finding it difficult. So, I suspect that you haven’t a clue.

Why am I not surprised?
  1. 07-09-2020 10:41
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We could mine the beaches, or maybe the channel in shallow waters, re-deploy the Maunsell Forts, or if all else fails just torpedo them.

Machine gunning them on the beaches is a bit messy, and would have the local Councils complaining.

Personally, I think it's all false like the Covid pandemic, haven't seen one cheap inflatable with outboard on ebay yet.
  1. 07-09-2020 10:44
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My solution was to change the laws so we can "send them back"

Imagine a government that changes its laws to reflect what the majority of the country wants.

I don't know how many times I've got to repeat myself...
  1. 07-09-2020 11:14
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We already have laws that can send them back BUT if you are trying to send them back to a country that wont take them you are stuck with them.
In case you believe countries cant do that what about our country trying to prevent that Begum woman coming back here?
As Griff rightly pointed out a lot of these illegals have no paperwork so where do you send them to?
As our wonderful Immigration service cant even work out how old some of them are what chance of working out which country they come from?
No law ever invented could sort that out.
  1. 07-09-2020 11:30
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What country in the world would not allow their own citizens back in?

Shamina big nashers has a dual citizenship. Guess the media hasnt told you that. Come on at least know the facts before you comment.

Every boat should be turned around and sent back to france. Only way to get into this country should be through our ports of entry ie a airport. Anyone coming outside these ports are ilegal.

Keep repeating myself here Arragorn. I feel like I'm trying to explain this to children.
  1. 07-09-2020 11:51
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Jeff, what if France doesn't accept them, what would you suggest we do with them then?
  1. 07-09-2020 13:44
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I wouldnt even give them a chance to land on our shores for them to be our problem, they should be turned around mid journey. They are ilegal. They have no right to enter our country.

A lot like Tony Abbott did in australlia, and guess what happened?

They stopped coming.

Are you all stupid who dont read my messages?

Next......
  1. 07-09-2020 14:37
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You come across as the childish one here Jeff. Your view or no view. No we are not all stupid.
I do happen to know that Begum has dual citizenship and Bangladesh wont have her either
Yes send them back to France but they will return on the next inflatable they can buy from the Calais Hypermarkets.
The French dont care especially as we have now left the EU and our Border Force is so underfunded by our useless government that they cant catch them all anyway.
No change of law can or will stop illegal immigration.
Illegals still try to get to Australia but they are sent to "processing" centres in New Guinea.
2 points here...1 where would we set up a " processing centre " abroad and thats if our human rights lawyers would even allow it.
2 It's a damn site shorter crossing from France to England than from anywhere to Australia and they also had the problem of countries not wanting to take people back.
Please respect other peoples' points of view without resorting to childish insults
  1. 07-09-2020 16:18
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I wouldnt even give them a chance to land on our shores for them to be our problem, they should be turned around mid journey. They are ilegal. They have no right to enter our country.

A lot like Tony Abbott did in australlia, and guess what happened?

They stopped coming.

Are you all stupid who dont read my messages?

Next......


Glory, here we go again Jeff. Who turns them around mid-channel? If it’s a Border Force boat or navy vessel they are crewed by representatives of HMG, either Border Force employees (Home Office) or naval staff (MoD). All one person has to say is “asylum” and you have to bring them here, because at that point a claim has been made to a UK official. To be honest, all of them would shout asylum at that point. If they were stopped by a civilian boat they wouldn't be able to do that of course, but few to none civilian vessels are out there physically turning them around mid-journey as you put it. What you want and what is possible are at odds Jeff. You can’t do it.

Read what Aragorn has said, he’s completely correct.

Oh, and changing our laws would make absolutely no difference. Can you hear me Jeff, ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE. UK laws are for the UK, so a law passed here to “send them back” would have absolutely no effect in France, or anywhere else in the world for that matter.

Jeff, do you understand now? All of your ideas are non-starters - perhaps “you’re a very old man or slightly retarded“. You might want to answer Kessler’s question too.

Next!
  1. 07-09-2020 16:54
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  1. 07-09-2020 17:38
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We could mine the beaches, or maybe the channel in shallow waters, re-deploy the Maunsell Forts, or if all else fails just torpedo them.

Machine gunning them on the beaches is a bit messy, and would have the local Councils complaining.

Personally, I think it's all false like the Covid pandemic, haven't seen one cheap inflatable with outboard on ebay yet.


We shud masheen gun them on teh frensh beeches, it wud maek boath of them respekt ower othority
  1. 07-09-2020 17:41
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Griff you are so embarrassing.

I did answer his question in the next comment.

Arragorn and Griff your beginning to sound really desperate sticking up for your precious ilegal immigrants..

Where do you live? Instead of a 4* hotel we will send the next boat of ILEGALS to your house.

Makes me sleep well at night knowing people like you are a fringe minority.
  1. 07-09-2020 18:24
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He asked what you’d do if France didn’t accept them. You said they should be turned around mid-channel, which doesn’t answer the question because they’d have to go back to France. You actually avoided the question and thought you’d got away with it. Unless you’re actually advocating hundreds if not thousands of migrants floating around in the channel ad infinitum which is what your answer means. If I’m in a fringe minority, I’d rather be in one which is tying to find a workable solution than one which involves thousands of men, women and children (because that’s what they are, Jeff) floating around on a cold sea for ever and a day.

Oh, and they’re not my illegal immigrants, they’re just people, and also a problem that needs a solution.
  1. 07-09-2020 18:49
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I want tough border restriction just like australlia and I want to turn every ilegal boat around just like Greece. Problem sorted.

I have no respect for people breaking the law.
  1. 07-09-2020 19:07
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He asked what you’d do if France didn’t accept them. You said they should be turned around mid-channel, which doesn’t answer the question because they’d have to go back to France. You actually avoided the question and thought you’d got away with it. Unless you’re actually advocating hundreds if not thousands of migrants floating around in the channel ad infinitum which is what your answer means. If I’m in a fringe minority, I’d rather be in one which is tying to find a workable solution than one which involves thousands of men, women and children (because that’s what they are, Jeff) floating around on a cold sea for ever and a day.

Oh, and they’re not my illegal immigrants, they’re just people, and also a problem that needs a solution.



The solution to illegal immigration will never be solved by the British Government or the French, it can only be solved by dealing with the cause of the problem and that is the HELLHOLE that is Syria.
This can only happen if the G8 Countries and especially the USA and Russia come together to end the carnage and begin to rebuild Syria.
  1. 07-09-2020 19:29
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Jeff I have no time for illegal immigrants as they have no right to be in our country but if you think that we have a government that can implement what you want you are definitely in cloud cuckoo land.
As I pointed out but you seem to conveniently ignore as it doesnt fit with your agenda the French would have to accept anyone we turn round in the Channel.
They might or more likely they wont.
If they do accept them back they will be back on the water the next day.
They would end up going backwards and forwards across the Channel with a significant number making it over here and disappearing into the night due to our lack of personnel to police our extensive coastline.
  1. 07-09-2020 20:22
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They'd soon run out of money paying the people smugglers if they're all being turned around mid channel.

They stopped making the trip in australlia so why cant it work here?
  1. 07-09-2020 20:34
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They’re only illegals if they get onto the beaches and vanish. If they claim asylum, or are looking for an official to claim asylum, they aren’t. Overstayers are illegals as are failed asylum seekers (claim made, considered and refused, all appeal rights exhausted) who fail to leave and disappear. The main point about illegals is that in most cases you don’t know where they are. Borders have an enforcement arm that look for them but they’re vastly under-funded and can’t cope. They generally act on intelligence received or target commercial enterprises (restaurants, nail bars etc) where some are working legally. It’s a good way of finding some who aren’t.

Anyway Jeff, you still owe Kessler a reply. What happens if the French won’t take them? They’re all left in the Middle of the Channel, right?
  1. 07-09-2020 22:30
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They’re only illegals if they get onto the beaches and vanish. If they claim asylum, or are looking for an official to claim asylum, they aren’t. Overstayers are illegals as are failed asylum seekers (claim made, considered and refused, all appeal rights exhausted) who fail to leave and disappear. The main point about illegals is that in most cases you don’t know where they are. Borders have an enforcement arm that look for them but they’re vastly under-funded and can’t cope. They generally act on intelligence received or target commercial enterprises (restaurants, nail bars etc) where some are working legally. It’s a good way of finding some who aren’t.

Anyway Jeff, you still owe Kessler a reply. What happens if the French won’t take them? They’re all left in the Middle of the Channel, right?


I suggested that above. Where’s that spot they filmed Fort Boyard at? Maybe drop them off there.
  1. 08-09-2020 09:15
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It’s French DB.
  1. 08-09-2020 10:12
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Wake up sheeple. Not only are they entering our country ilegally.

They are now be shipped up here to live on a street near you.

More on them here, more chance theres a neck stabber amongst them.

Were the people of Carlisle ever asked about this?

https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/18703230.carlisle-one-step-closer-nationally-recognised-city-sanctuary/
  1. 08-09-2020 10:23
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I would get used to it, there is not one thing we can do about it, desperate people do desperate things.

This is only the beginning of World Migration, as the planet keeps warming and water becomes scarce their are whole Countries with Millions who will up-sticks in the name of survival.

Unless everyone stops breeding it is inevitable.
  1. 08-09-2020 10:28
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All the millions of pounds we've given the French to beef up their side of the channel regarding alleged refugees has done no good. Better to use those funds on beefing up our Border Force. The French have made no real effort to stop the flow of " boat people"
  1. 08-09-2020 11:17
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Hungary and Poland can do it but we cant?
  1. 08-09-2020 11:54
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True, Waltero , I’d favour that too, but if we upset the French (and it sticks in my craw to say that) we risk them being even less helpful than they are now. I think they’d stop short of actually putting them on boats, but they could remove even more barriers to them leaving.

Silent one - I agree with that. Wars don’t help either. Perhaps our foreign aid needs to be better targeted; I’m still not sure why India gets so much.

Jeff - there are already refugees in Cumbria. If Carlisle is to become a dispersal area for asylum seekers than it will be the first in Cumbria, unless I’ve missed something in the last few years. Probably about time we took some. There’s a business opportunity for you there, Jeff. You could devise a neck protection device and market it, maybe sell advertising space on the side. Oh and you’re still to enlighten us about Kessler’s scenario where the French won’t have them back and you would turn them back, so they’re currently floating around mid-channel in limbo. I’m actually starting to believe that you are serious. Maybe they could fasten all the boats together in an ever-expanding mass, trading ethnic clothing for seafood with passing fisherman; go on to declare themselves an independent nation, maybe shift themselves down nearer to the Azores from time to time for a bit of sun. Or do you have a better idea?
  1. 08-09-2020 11:58
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The term Foreign Aid is a politically correct term for ' bung '....

"If you buy things from us, we'll give you a load of loot "

Even in the extremes of depravity and famine, they all have one thing - social media, the new Holy Grail. No one is travelling into the unknown anymore, contacts are set-up and the people trafficking industry is booming.

Eventually it will be found to go right to the top of Governments.

I'm surprised it took them so long to sail over the channel, they should have got together and bought a full size boat years ago, just enough fuel to get them into UK waters, then send out a mayday, and bring 00's at a time. At least if they stick to inflatables, you can rely on the weather as a savior.

Moria Camp in Greece is having it's first outbreak of COVID, some of the NGO's are hightailing it, if their's no grub and facilities, the refugees will be next.
  1. 08-09-2020 12:24
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All the millions of pounds we've given the French to beef up their side of the channel regarding alleged refugees has done no good. Better to use those funds on beefing up our Border Force. The French have made no real effort to stop the flow of " boat people"


The thing with beefing up border force is that they just pick them up and bring them in so it would actually increase the number coming in. As Griff has said they legally have to do this.

As for Jeff, despite pages of trying with the simple soul he still doesn't get the difference between building a fence on a land border that physically keeps people out (Hungary) and trying to put people back once they've got in (us to France or wherever) - and by 'in', if they get halfway across the channel, or into our 12 mile territorial water limits they've made it to the uk. Short of building some massive trump sea wall in one of the worlds busiest shipping lanes, what do we do? You could stick them on St Kilda as an immigration centre aussie-style, but sounds like it'd be easier to stop them coming in the first place given they have to cross an entire continent first.
  1. 08-09-2020 12:37
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I’ve been trying to challenge, and at the same time educate Jeff But, as someone once said, there’s none so blind and those that will not see. He just blocks or ignores everything you say. Still, I’ll keep trying.
  1. 08-09-2020 12:58
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Let's just invite the whole world over to our tiny island with limited resources.

British people living on the streets and kids in poverty.

But yeah Griff with your bright ideas to let more ILEGALS in.

Griff proper triggered because the country doesnt agree with his left wing progressive views.
  1. 08-09-2020 14:04
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Your a good act Jeff. You should try out for Clibbens job at the forums.
  1. 08-09-2020 14:29
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Jeff, Jeff, Jeff, please don’t go inviting more over, I’m certainly not going to and I can’t see anyone else doing that either, unless they’re screened refugees taken from the camps. That’s a stupid idea.

Yes there are people on the streets and in poverty. That’s due mainly to Government policies, not due to refugees, asylum seekers or illegals.

My ideas aren’t particularly bright, they are just alternatives to what’s currently happening. I posted them to make you think about them. That’s not your way though, is it Jeff? If you see an idea that doesn’t fit with your view you call the poster a moron. Neither are my views left wing or progressive, I’m a pro-Brexiteer with experience in asylum and immigration who has views formed by that experience. Some of my views could be considered right of centre but I like to be pragmatic and consider alternatives before I form them. I suspect that yours are based on something that a bloke down the pub told you, since when you’ve been looking for evidence to back it up.

Oh, by the way, those “illegals’ are still floating in the middle of the channel, what are you going to do about them?
  1. 08-09-2020 14:41
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They're ilegal non british citizens so they're not our problem.
  1. 08-09-2020 15:08
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Ok Jeff, let’s take that a little further. They’re in the middle of the Channel and you say they’re illegal. For something to be illegal it has to be agains at least one law. Which laws(s) are this folk breaking, Jeff? UK law? French law, International law, Maritime law*
or (hint, hint) none of these?

Take your time Jeff.






* this one’s quite interesting, because if these boats are blocking a shipping lane - highly likely in the Channel - then it’s because we’ve put them there by turning them back on your orders. In that case It could land the UK in court, not the migrants. You’re still not thinking these things through.
  1. 08-09-2020 16:16
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As soon as you enter british water without permission then you are breaking the law.

Therefore you are an ilegal immigrant.
  1. 08-09-2020 16:25
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Jeff your continual misspelling of illegal is getting on my tits
  1. 08-09-2020 16:32
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I wonder sometimes, why instead of paying people traffickers a fortune, they don't fly to Dublin then cross the virtually non-existent border into Northern Ireland,
  1. 08-09-2020 16:45
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As soon as you enter british water without permission then you are breaking the law.

Therefore you are an ilegal immigrant.


No you’re not Jeff. If you aren’t coming from the EU then you have to fly a Q flag (look it up) on entering our waters, otherwise you simply have to contact the relevant authorities on arrival, much like getting off an aircraft.

Here are the instructions to those operating pleasure-craft which most of these boats are:

“Anyone on board who is not a UK or EU national must get a UKBA officer’s permission to enter the UK from a place other than the Isle of Man, or the Channel Islands. As the person responsible, you must make sure that anyone requiring immigration clearance (including yourself if appropriate) obtains the necessary permission to enter.

If there is anyone on board requiring immigration clearance, they’ll need to contact the nearest UKBA office by phone to arrange clearance. The National Yachtline will be able to advise on how to do this.“

So Jeff, they’re not breaking a law until they fail to notify a Border Agency official of their arrival.

You’ll probably keep on about turning them back though Jeff, but they’re not illegals at that point.
  1. 08-09-2020 17:23
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To move away from muslamic ilegals, the northern irish secretary has just admitted Johnson's latest spiffing wheeze will break international law

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54073836



All of you who voted for this shower of shit stand outside the headmasters office now
  1. 08-09-2020 17:23
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They are entering illegally as they are not coming through a port of entry.

Would they not just fly in with the money they're paying the people smugglers?

Or is it because they're illegal and wouldnt get through customs.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/31/channel-crossings-will-continue-long-illegal-migrants-allowed/
  1. 08-09-2020 17:34
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