Flooding

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10 Feb 2020 11:50 #51 by Lakelandterrier
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Hi Barbara, hope you have not suffered badly by the flooding in Appleby? Hope everyone bounces back.

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10 Feb 2020 13:22 #52 by Bumble
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Thank you. I am really fortunate in that I live on top of a hill, so I'm fine. The electric sub station wasn't knocked out this time thank goodness.

The main town bridge is still shut but there are ways round that.

It's awful for those that have been flooded but there is almost a feeling of resignation and just getting on with it. I'm going down this afternoon but Appleby is one of those places that pulls together. There are more offers of help than help needed, which is great.

The cricket club only just got going again this season after storm Desmond, I really hope the pitch survives the damage this time.
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10 Feb 2020 15:07 #53 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic FAO Bumble
What a difference 12 hours makes...river back within its banks, crazy the force of nature

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10 Feb 2020 15:10 #54 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic Re:Flooding
Did somebody forget to shut the gate again
Theres a flood gate beside the East Stand/ Waterworks corner

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10 Feb 2020 15:20 #55 by Arragorn
Replied by Arragorn on topic Re:Flooding
If it was the Environment Agency's job to do it & it was left open then they probably forgot.
They are as much use as a chocolate fireguard.
Over 4 years on from Storm Desmond & very little progress on our increased flood defences.
Didn't see any sign of them on Warwick Road last night. Police & Cumbria CC were there.
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10 Feb 2020 16:34 #56 by pacirv
Replied by pacirv on topic FAO Bumble
It's getting to be every 5 years 2005, 2010, 2015 and now 2020. Just another reminder why we should long term move out of BP.

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10 Feb 2020 21:52 #57 by Mammoth
Replied by Mammoth on topic FAO Bumble
Can anyone work out why the schools in are shut in Penrith? Brunswick says this "WE HAVE NO WATER. UNITED UTILITIES ARE TRYING TO FIX A WATER MAIN THAT WAS WASHED AWAY IN THE STORM. WE WILL BE IN TOUCH AS AND WHEN WE KNOW ANYTHING. THANK YOU", North lakes says this "Due to ongoing work by United Utilities, Cumbria County Council have directed North Lakes School to remain closed on Tuesday 11th February". Every school in Eden says something similar.

How is it that the schools have got no water but there's no problems with the houses?

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10 Feb 2020 21:57 #58 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic Flooding

CCU wrote: If only they’d dredge the Petteril...


If only someone would bang the head of the EA against a wall until they stop pissing about building pretty walls and just dredge the bloody things and then pile the banks.

The council in Rochdale refused to take their crap and demanded that they just hand over the money which eventually they did and did the work themselves and guess what yesterday, not a drop was spilt maybe time Carlisle Council followed suit
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10 Feb 2020 22:01 #59 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic Re:Flooding

Happyblue wrote: Eden bridge seems to act like a damn, in heavy rain fall like this , saw pictures of it earlier , the levels on either side a significantly different , something needs to be done to ease the flow under it .


Do you mean like making it wider and deeper ?
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10 Feb 2020 22:25 #60 by Happyblue
Replied by Happyblue on topic Re:Flooding

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Happyblue wrote: Eden bridge seems to act like a damn, in heavy rain fall like this , saw pictures of it earlier , the levels on either side a significantly different , something needs to be done to ease the flow under it .



Do you mean like making it wider and deeper ?

I always laugh when you say twice and wide twice as deep twice the flow , as for one points out how bad at maths you are (2x2 =4 not 2) You can't do it twice as deep or twice as wide as the distance between carlisle and the sea in relation to height above see level is now great enough.
Carlisle is 29m above sea level ,it's 19312.1 meters away from the sea so that means it it drops 0.001m per meter.

Quote clear NS as you haven't actually understood the basics you take away giant obstacles stoping the water .

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10 Feb 2020 22:39 #61 by Arragorn
Replied by Arragorn on topic Re:Flooding
Something needs to be done with Botcherby bridge. Acting like a dam again last night. That's how the flood water got onto Warwick Road.
It was nowhere near the top of the flood defences not much further up river.
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10 Feb 2020 22:46 #62 by Flatcap
Replied by Flatcap on topic Re:Flooding

Happyblue wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Happyblue wrote: Eden bridge seems to act like a damn, in heavy rain fall like this , saw pictures of it earlier , the levels on either side a significantly different , something needs to be done to ease the flow under it .



Do you mean like making it wider and deeper ?

I always laugh when you say twice and wide twice as deep twice the flow , as for one points out how bad at maths you are (2x2 =4 not 2) You can't do it twice as deep or twice as wide as the distance between carlisle and the sea in relation to height above see level is now great enough.
Carlisle is 29m above sea level ,it's 19312.1 meters away from the sea so that means it it drops 0.001m per meter.

Quote clear NS as you haven't actually understood the basics you take away giant obstacles stoping the water .


Depends whether the tide is in or out and judging from an earlier post you made, you haven't a clue when that is, or how much the difference is between low and high tides.
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10 Feb 2020 23:27 #63 by Happyblue
Replied by Happyblue on topic Re:Flooding

Flatcap wrote:

Happyblue wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Happyblue wrote: Eden bridge seems to act like a damn, in heavy rain fall like this , saw pictures of it earlier , the levels on either side a significantly different , something needs to be done to ease the flow under it .



Do you mean like making it wider and deeper ?

I always laugh when you say twice and wide twice as deep twice the flow , as for one points out how bad at maths you are (2x2 =4 not 2) You can't do it twice as deep or twice as wide as the distance between carlisle and the sea in relation to height above see level is now great enough.
Carlisle is 29m above sea level ,it's 19312.1 meters away from the sea so that means it it drops 0.001m per meter.

Quote clear NS as you haven't actually understood the basics you take away giant obstacles stoping the water .


Depends whether the tide is in or out and judging from an earlier post you made, you haven't a clue when that is, or how much the difference is between low and high tides.

Well the reason I got the tide wrong was a i quickly checked the tide , Doesn't stop what NS said being technically impossible , Unless the tide in Cumbria rise several hundred meters

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10 Feb 2020 23:45 #64 by Mullen103
Replied by Mullen103 on topic Re:Flooding
If you have a washing up bowl and you leave the tap on, once all the water fills it it starts over flowing.

The only way you can stop it over flowing - apart from turning the tap off - is to get a bigger washing up bowl that’ll hold more water.

I just don’t understand when people say dreadging/wider won’t work. Surely it’ll increase the area for water to go into.

It would just of taken a little bit more of a downpour for the river and Warwick road to flood badly again. Somethings not working!

When I was little 30+ years ago we had worse storms than this and no major floods. Why? Because the rivers were dredged regularly.

At least we’re not Stockport
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11 Feb 2020 08:17 #65 by Mammoth
Replied by Mammoth on topic Re:Flooding
Localised dredging is digging a hole at the bottom of a river which just leaves a hole sitting full of water with the flow of the river going over the top and there is no extra capacity for storm water to come through.

You could create capacity if you could ensure there is no rise in the river bed at the downstream end of the dredge but, because of the slack gradient, this is miles of dredging to get any useful effect which has to be repeated frequently. Compared to the size of the flood flow the benefit you could get from dredging would be a massive waste of resources.

There could be benefit to it in locations where there already is a localised rise in the river bed which might occur where gravel has accumulated behind a bridge for instance.
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11 Feb 2020 08:49 #66 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic Flooding

Mammoth wrote: There could be benefit to it in locations where there already is a localised rise in the river bed which might occur where gravel has accumulated behind a bridge for instance.


Exactly what many folk have suggested for the areas around the likes of Botcherby Bridge since 2005...

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11 Feb 2020 08:55 #67 by Happyblue
Replied by Happyblue on topic Re:Flooding

Mullen103 wrote: If you have a washing up bowl and you leave the tap on, once all the water fills it it starts over flowing.

The only way you can stop it over flowing - apart from turning the tap off - is to get a bigger washing up bowl that’ll hold more water.

I just don’t understand when people say dreadging/wider won’t work. Surely it’ll increase the area for water to go into.

It would just of taken a little bit more of a downpour for the river and Warwick road to flood badly again. Somethings not working!

When I was little 30+ years ago we had worse storms than this and no major floods. Why? Because the rivers were dredged regularly.



You think storms were worse 30+years ago Mullen , the facts such as rainfall point to the opposite, You just think they were worse because you were a child .

A river will get wider and deeper over time that's how erosion works , if you measured the depth of the Eden 100 years ago it will be very slightly deep and wider now.

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11 Feb 2020 08:57 #68 by Happyblue
Replied by Happyblue on topic Re:Flooding
Also can I just keep point out that removing the build up of silt from around the bridge is not actually dredging.

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11 Feb 2020 09:14 #69 by BelleVueBoy
Replied by BelleVueBoy on topic Re:Flooding
Whilst undoubtedly hard engineering can work (for instance replacing Botcherby Bridge) and flooding bunds, the elephant in the room is land management upstream, especially given the rainfall we are now getting. Vast areas of the Pennines and the Lakes fells feed the Eden and virtually all that landscape (currently mainly overgrazed by sheep with hardly a tree in site and often artificially drained to get water off asap) could be used to slow the flow through wetland restoration and very large scale tree planting/restoration (trees can improve water penetration by factor of over 60). We could and should also have some very large temporary upstream storage areas. The latter would need some had engineering to create bunds across upland valleys which would temporarily hold back wter for maybe 24 hours and release it gradually. Farmers/landowners would be paid for this. Tree planting and peat bog restoration also about the best CO2 lock ups we can easily come up with.
If we restored/engineered river catchments along the above lines you'd be looking at a peak flow reduction of between 10 and 30% by spreading out the highest flows over a few days. Which would solve the issue.
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11 Feb 2020 09:19 #70 by Scratcherblue
Replied by Scratcherblue on topic Re:Flooding

Happyblue wrote: Also can I just keep point out that removing the build up of silt from around the bridge is not actually dredging.


What do you know ? You probably work in McDonald's or somewhere.

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11 Feb 2020 09:34 #71 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic Re:Flooding

Scratcherblue wrote:

Happyblue wrote: Also can I just keep point out that removing the build up of silt from around the bridge is not actually dredging.


What do you know ? You probably work in McDonald's or somewhere.


And what's wrong with working in McDonalds exactly?

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11 Feb 2020 09:42 - 11 Feb 2020 12:10 #72 by Scratcherblue
Replied by Scratcherblue on topic Re:Flooding

Kessler wrote:

Scratcherblue wrote:

Happyblue wrote: Also can I just keep point out that removing the build up of silt from around the bridge is not actually dredging.


What do you know ? You probably work in McDonald's or somewhere.


And what's wrong with working in McDonalds exactly?


Dont know. Dont work there. The point is happy obviously knows very little about anything.

Another point is you just bang on and on and on about the same stuff.
Last edit: 11 Feb 2020 12:10 by CCU. Reason: Fixed quote

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11 Feb 2020 09:45 - 11 Feb 2020 09:49 #73 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic Flooding

Happyblue wrote: Also can I just keep point out that removing the build up of silt from around the bridge is not actually dredging.


Dredging is the removal of materials via forms of excavation in water environments.

Indeed the Govt agrees:

Clearance dredging - to remove material which has accumulated around a structure or asset for a purpose other than to facilitate navigation. Clearance dredging will usually require a licence but may be suitable for self-service licensing.

www.gov.uk/guidance/dredging

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Last edit: 11 Feb 2020 09:49 by CCU.

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11 Feb 2020 12:06 - 11 Feb 2020 12:11 #74 by Dancingbear
Replied by Dancingbear on topic Flooding

Scratcherblue wrote:

Kessler wrote:

Scratcherblue wrote:

Happyblue wrote: Also can I just keep point out that removing the build up of silt from around the bridge is not actually dredging.


What do you know ? You probably work in McDonald's or somewhere.


And what's wrong with working in McDonalds exactly?


Dont know. Dont work there. The point is happy obviously knows very little about anything.

Another point is you just bang on and on and on about the same stuff.


Struggling a bit with the old quote function there old chap. Did you fail the McD aptitude test?

There's only one way of life and that's your own!!!
Last edit: 11 Feb 2020 12:11 by CCU. Reason: Fixed quote

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11 Feb 2020 12:07 #75 by Waltero
Replied by Waltero on topic Re:Flooding
You talking from experience then Kess

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11 Feb 2020 12:38 #76 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic Re:Flooding

Waltero wrote: You talking from experience then Kess


Maybe.

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11 Feb 2020 12:54 #77 by Molly123
Replied by Molly123 on topic Re:Flooding

Kessler wrote:

Waltero wrote: You talking from experience then Kess


Maybe.



Any update on the state of the pitch/ weather?

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11 Feb 2020 13:28 #78 by Mammoth
Replied by Mammoth on topic Flooding

CCU wrote:

Mammoth wrote: There could be benefit to it in locations where there already is a localised rise in the river bed which might occur where gravel has accumulated behind a bridge for instance.


Exactly what many folk have suggested for the areas around the likes of Botcherby Bridge since 2005...


Fair enough.

If I understand this page correctly then gravel management under Botherby Bridge is on a planned maintenance schedule with maintenance checks annually and the next planned dredge is due in 2021. Gravel management improvements at Botcherby Bridge is also part of the phase 1 flood scheme.

environment.data.gov.uk/asset-management...077&layer=all-assets

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11 Feb 2020 13:51 #79 by Alan
Replied by Alan on topic Flooding
Worked on a project on river Ehen nr Sellafield where a large concrete lagoon was constructed and a pump house was built.
When river level got to a certain depth the water would spill into lagoon and be pumped away from
the river keeping river at a consistent depth.
Little caldew has a similar bit smaller type system.
I did think this was happening at botcherby Bridge but could we way off mark.

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11 Feb 2020 19:09 #80 by Happyblue
Replied by Happyblue on topic Re:Flooding

Scratcherblue wrote:

Kessler wrote:

Scratcherblue wrote:

Happyblue wrote: Also can I just keep point out that removing the build up of silt from around the bridge is not actually dredging.


What do you know ? You probably work in McDonald's or somewhere.


And what's wrong with working in McDonalds exactly?


Dont know. Dont work there. The point is happy obviously knows very little about anything.

Another point is you just bang on and on and on about the same stuff.

I know a good amount , but you just don't like what I say. I don't get offended when people like you make a comments , as I'm very confident in my knowledge and not someone like you trying to make a dig

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11 Feb 2020 19:19 #81 by Happyblue
Replied by Happyblue on topic Re:Flooding

Happyblue wrote:

Scratcherblue wrote:

Kessler wrote:

Scratcherblue wrote:

Happyblue wrote: Also can I just keep point out that removing the build up of silt from around the bridge is not actually dredging.


What do you know ? You probably work in McDonald's or somewhere.


And what's wrong with working in McDonalds exactly?


Dont know. Dont work there. The point is happy obviously knows very little about anything.

Another point is you just bang on and on and on about the same stuff.

I know a good amount , but you just don't like what I say. I don't get offended when people like you make a comments , as I'm very confident in my knowledge and not someone like you trying to make a dig

I actually also think it's more that ,your in the mindset that you don't like actually taking facts on board and would rather sit and be ignorant .

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11 Feb 2020 19:30 #82 by Happyblue
Replied by Happyblue on topic Re:Flooding
What I find funny is that people think I'm against dredging , i'm very much for it if it would work and where it works.
The issue is Carlisle is not that far above see level so the impact of dredging would be too small to do any thing and that focus needs to go on a number of things such as pumping stations , re-foreststion on the drainage basin , diversion channels , storage areas.

Each set of defences are designed to stop flooding of the same level. They seem to fail to understand the next storm may be worse

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12 Feb 2020 06:55 #83 by CarlisleWhite
Replied by CarlisleWhite on topic Re:Flooding

Happyblue wrote: What I find funny is that people think I'm against dredging , i'm very much for it if it would work and where it works.
The issue is Carlisle is not that far above see level so the impact of dredging would be too small to do any thing and that focus needs to go on a number of things such as pumping stations , re-foreststion on the drainage basin , diversion channels , storage areas.

Each set of defences are designed to stop flooding of the same level. They seem to fail to understand the next storm may be worse

Thought you were a structural engineer HappyBlue?

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12 Feb 2020 07:41 #84 by carwash
Replied by carwash on topic Re:Flooding
Storm Dennis looks like causing torrential rain and very strong wind for the game on Saturday at Crawley . I can see the game being postponed as a precaution if the forecast remains the same.

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12 Feb 2020 08:52 #85 by Happyblue
Replied by Happyblue on topic Re:Flooding

CarlisleWhite wrote:

Happyblue wrote: What I find funny is that people think I'm against dredging , i'm very much for it if it would work and where it works.
The issue is Carlisle is not that far above see level so the impact of dredging would be too small to do any thing and that focus needs to go on a number of things such as pumping stations , re-foreststion on the drainage basin , diversion channels , storage areas.

Each set of defences are designed to stop flooding of the same level. They seem to fail to understand the next storm may be worse

Thought you were a structural engineer HappyBlue?

What about my point counters that ? All I said it's we need a long term solutions not short term

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12 Feb 2020 12:45 #86 by thesilentone
Replied by thesilentone on topic Re:Flooding
All the talk about flooding and dredging has had meeting after meeting, the EA are against it and that's that...as far they are concerned. However dredging does work, and helps flood abatement it has been proved in the Somerset levels.

Happyblue's theory sounds good, but is wrong as it does not take into consideration the dynamics of water flow and pressure.

If you put a sluice gate on the end of a drain pipe where it enters the river/sea/drain, once the level of the out end has risen above the slice, it closes and stops the drain working. However the build up of water and pressure in the drain eventually forces open the sluice and allows that volume to drain into the river etc. Once the pressure in the drain drops the sluice closes again and repeat until the river level drops. By dredging the river estuaries, the same applies as they silt up over years, as do the rivers due to up-stream erosion.
There is a way to stop river bank erosion as demonstrated in other Countries by 'scalloping ' the edges (so they are not straight) this slows down flow at the edges and increases flow in the center of the river.
There are many basic solutions to our flooding problems (like cleaning out drains, gutters, culverts, run offs etc) but our Council seems to have abandoned this, I don't think they know where half the drains are.

The EA are unfit for purpose.
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12 Feb 2020 12:57 #87 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic Re:Flooding
I find it weird that the EA are flatly against dredging...maybe that is their policy but surely each area has its own particular problems.
Here its the Botcherby Bridge..its a narrow structure and acts a funnel and any flood water has only a narrow flow through, naturally it finds another way out. A deeper capacity would help and should at least be tried

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12 Feb 2020 13:27 #88 by thesilentone
Replied by thesilentone on topic Re:Flooding
A huge volume of water in a short period is very difficult to deal with (hence the massive flood drain channels in America). A combination of things are needed such as re-foresting the hills etc, but dredging does help.

So, does placing pumping equipment at a height that is above the flood water (Willowholme) and making sure they don't run out of fuel. Clearing debris (fallen branches, litter, leaves etc, etc) that all end up in the drains. Reinstatement of our existing infrastructure.

Get rid of the stupid regulation about river gravel that is washed out, or that from dredging being classified as waste. Allow it to be sold as a product. There is that ridiculous story about the farmer from Cockermouth who had 000's of tons of gravel washed onto his land which the EA refused to remove, so he shoved it all back into the River, so they sued him for not having a permit to handle waste.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-32032893

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12 Feb 2020 13:45 #89 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic Re:Flooding
Reading the first paragraph of that link....why would it cost £6m to dredge 8km of 2 rivers.....
take 1 dredging boat, already owned by the EA or a procured company, 1 or 2 operatives.....and a couple of lorries to remove the gravel.
Ha ha....but surely not a £6m price tag

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12 Feb 2020 13:50 #90 by CarlisleWhite
Replied by CarlisleWhite on topic Re:Flooding

Happyblue wrote:

CarlisleWhite wrote:

Happyblue wrote: What I find funny is that people think I'm against dredging , i'm very much for it if it would work and where it works.
The issue is Carlisle is not that far above see level so the impact of dredging would be too small to do any thing and that focus needs to go on a number of things such as pumping stations , re-foreststion on the drainage basin , diversion channels , storage areas.

Each set of defences are designed to stop flooding of the same level. They seem to fail to understand the next storm may be worse

Thought you were a structural engineer HappyBlue?

What about my point counters that ? All I said it's we need a long term solutions not short term

Nothing, but you have said previously you are a structural engineer, and appear to be trying to come across as an expert on this topic.
Everyone entitled to an opinion of course, but good to know who is an enthusitic amateur and who is commenting from a position of experience.

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12 Feb 2020 14:05 #91 by thesilentone
Replied by thesilentone on topic Re:Flooding

seesaw50 wrote: Reading the first paragraph of that link....why would it cost £6m to dredge 8km of 2 rivers.....
take 1 dredging boat, already owned by the EA or a procured company, 1 or 2 operatives.....and a couple of lorries to remove the gravel.
Ha ha....but surely not a £6m price tag


You make a good point, and of course it should not have cost anything near that, then we have the politics !!

Years ago we used to have Regional River Authorities who were responsible for flood risk etc, etc.........

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Rivers_Authority
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12 Feb 2020 14:11 #92 by Happyblue
Replied by Happyblue on topic Re:Flooding

CarlisleWhite wrote:

Happyblue wrote:

CarlisleWhite wrote:

Happyblue wrote: What I find funny is that people think I'm against dredging , i'm very much for it if it would work and where it works.
The issue is Carlisle is not that far above see level so the impact of dredging would be too small to do any thing and that focus needs to go on a number of things such as pumping stations , re-foreststion on the drainage basin , diversion channels , storage areas.

Each set of defences are designed to stop flooding of the same level. They seem to fail to understand the next storm may be worse

Thought you were a structural engineer HappyBlue?

What about my point counters that ? All I said it's we need a long term solutions not short term

Nothing, but you have said previously you are a structural engineer, and appear to be trying to come across as an expert on this topic.
Everyone entitled to an opinion of course, but good to know who is an enthusitic amateur and who is commenting from a position of experience.

I do risk mitigation as I've told you part of that is flooding ,

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12 Feb 2020 14:13 #93 by Happyblue
Replied by Happyblue on topic Re:Flooding
Also everyone on this thread is trying to come across as an expert but all of them are failing to see the problem of a gradient of bellow 0.01% making it very difficult

Owners like the stadium, full of Sh!T
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12 Feb 2020 14:52 #94 by thesilentone
Replied by thesilentone on topic Re:Flooding
The Eden enters the Solway channel just west of Rockliffe, where do you get the 19km figure from ?

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12 Feb 2020 15:20 #95 by Yorkie Blue
Replied by Yorkie Blue on topic Re:Flooding
A couple of points to consider, the fall of gradient is not consistent, the River Eden at the Eden Bridge is about 20 metres a.s.l. this drops to sea level round about Beaumont, a distance of 8k, this would give a gradient of around 0.25%, but irrespective of the fall, the main thing to consider is the volume, tip a cup of water out at the above gradient and there`ll probably be little movement, tip a few hundred thousand cubic metres of water out at that gradient and you`ll have a much different result. Anyway using the mark 1 eyeball watching the Eden, whatever the height of the river, anywhere through Carlisle and it certainly appears to flow ok.

Stay safe, stay healthy all.
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12 Feb 2020 15:33 #96 by thesilentone
Replied by thesilentone on topic Re:Flooding

Happyblue wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Happyblue wrote: Eden bridge seems to act like a damn, in heavy rain fall like this , saw pictures of it earlier , the levels on either side a significantly different , something needs to be done to ease the flow under it .



Do you mean like making it wider and deeper ?

I always laugh when you say twice and wide twice as deep twice the flow , as for one points out how bad at maths you are (2x2 =4 not 2) You can't do it twice as deep or twice as wide as the distance between carlisle and the sea in relation to height above see level is now great enough.
Carlisle is 29m above sea level ,it's 19312.1 meters away from the sea so that means it it drops 0.001m per meter.

Quote clear NS as you haven't actually understood the basics you take away giant obstacles stoping the water .


The energy in the water is also a factor you are forgetting, in simple terms the wider and deeper the river, the more volume = more energy density partially due to less friction. This factor is proportionally squared no x by. The speed of flow changes with energy density irrespective of the fall, that is why you see a river 'raging ' and fast flowing when full or flooded. You haven't being doing calculations for the EA have you ??

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12 Feb 2020 15:53 #97 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic Re:Flooding

Happyblue wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Happyblue wrote: Eden bridge seems to act like a damn, in heavy rain fall like this , saw pictures of it earlier , the levels on either side a significantly different , something needs to be done to ease the flow under it .



Do you mean like making it wider and deeper ?

I always laugh when you say twice and wide twice as deep twice the flow , as for one points out how bad at maths you are (2x2 =4 not 2) You can't do it twice as deep or twice as wide as the distance between carlisle and the sea in relation to height above see level is now great enough.
Carlisle is 29m above sea level ,it's 19312.1 meters away from the sea so that means it it drops 0.001m per meter.

Quote clear NS as you haven't actually understood the basics you take away giant obstacles stoping the water .


Where did I say anything about twice the flow ?

You're correct it is four times the flow as i have said on numerous occasions in the past.

But once again you totally miss the point the issue with the Eden [ and its tributaries ] is that when the tide is in there is nowhere for the water to go so you make somewhere by both increasing the capacity of the river to hold the water and by creating floodplains on the farmland around the estuary and then when the tide goes out it will empty ready to fill again on the next tide.

This combined with a programme of upland works designed to both slow down and reduce the amount of water reaching the rivers in the first place. I would have thought a programme of beaver breeding and release would be a very cost-effective way to do that .

But in Carlisle as elsewhere all the EA are interested in doing is designing fancy schemes that they know won't solve the problem that they then sub out and spend millions project managing The scheme in Radcliffe [ i may have said it was Bury ] The council there told the EA what they wanted the EA told them it would cost 3 times what they had in the budget for it . So the council said well just give us the cash you.ve got as we believe we can deliver the project we want for the cash you have available.

So that's what happened the council got the job done by hiring a couple of small local firms to do what after all is a pretty simple job driving in steel piles and although it not finished yet and the landscaping etc still needs to be done guess what it did its job and there was no flooding along the stretch in question.

Any organisation which goes round decommissioning pumps that have protected farmland for decades just because that farmer refuses to take on the financial responsibility for operating, maintaining and replacing the pump just because the EA see that as a way of them saving money.

The EA.S brief should be to protect the country's land from flooding with common sense solutions at reasonable cost Not going round proposing grandiose schemes that earn their employees vast amounts of money and end up doing nothing to solve the problem.

As for Botcherby bridge, there is a very simple very cheap solution that the EA seems to have overlooked One that would have worked unlike their Cobbold together scheme that clearly didn't.
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12 Feb 2020 16:07 #98 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic Re:Flooding

Kessler wrote:

Scratcherblue wrote:

Happyblue wrote: Also can I just keep point out that removing the build up of silt from around the bridge is not actually dredging.


What do you know ? You probably work in McDonald's or somewhere.


And what's wrong with working in McDonalds exactly?


Nothing. but it doesn't make you an expert on flood alleviation tho does it.

Just like quoting loads of figures is just doing exactly what the EA do when the best schemes are devised on the back of fag packets for no financial gain.

And btw I know full well that Mr Happy isn't one of Uncle Ronald's happy band of simpletons before he or someone else feels the need to point it out.

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12 Feb 2020 16:16 #99 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic Flooding

Mammoth wrote:

CCU wrote:

Mammoth wrote: There could be benefit to it in locations where there already is a localised rise in the river bed which might occur where gravel has accumulated behind a bridge for instance.


Exactly what many folk have suggested for the areas around the likes of Botcherby Bridge since 2005...


Fair enough.

If I understand this page correctly then gravel management under Botherby Bridge is on a planned maintenance schedule with maintenance checks annually and the next planned dredge is due in 2021. Gravel management improvements at Botcherby Bridge is also part of the phase 1 flood scheme.

environment.data.gov.uk/asset-management...077&layer=all-assets


Gravel management plans have you ever heard such bollocks

You employ a man you give him a shovel excavator, the phone numbers of a few moxy owners and a stretch of river to maintain and let him get on with it deciding which bits need the work and when.

See thats whats wrong with this country we spend half the budget on consultants to write reports that are a total waste of time just let the man use his common sense and get on with the job.
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12 Feb 2020 16:27 #100 by Dazwacky
Replied by Dazwacky on topic Flooding
We were so Lucky the City didn't flood again and the EA muppets saying the flood defenses worked REALLY!! all this nonsense about dredging will not work that is a FACT, like others have said it needs dammed at the source, or floodplains introduced to stop all the tributaries coming into Carlisle at once!! next big tide have a walk in Bitts Park and watch the flow of water actually go upstream ;-)

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