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16 Jan 2020 11:56 #251 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic The Politics Thread

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Kessler wrote:

Waltero wrote: They in my opinion should lose all their rights. They get fed clothed and accommodated at the tax payers expense. If they can't do the time don't do the crime. But you being a bleeding heart liberal are guaranteed to disagree. What rights would you give a prisoner snowflake ?


So you think we should let prisoners starve to death then? Because that's what "lose all their rights" really means.


You seem to have overlooked the following

They in my opinion should lose all their rights. They get fed clothed and accommodated at the tax payers expense. If they can't do the time don't do the crime. But you being a bleeding heart liberal are guaranteed to disagree. What rights would you give a prisoner snowflake ?


But if he's saying they should lose all their rights, that would include those. So if he wants them to keep those, he doesn't actually want them to lose all their rights?

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16 Jan 2020 12:01 #252 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic The Politics Thread

Arragorn wrote: Here's one for you Kessler.
Why should convicted murderers be allowed any human rights?
They took away the human rights of their victims & in a lot of cases they walk free without completing their whole term sentence after conning some daft buggers on a parole board that they are reformed characters.


Because I think regardless of what people have done, there is a minimum humane standard with which they should be treated. Waltero mentions prisoners being fed and clothed, that only happens because they have rights. If they literally had no rights then there would be no obligation to feed them, prisoners could literally be starved to death or killed by guards with impunity.

I agree with the last bit though. A life sentence should literally mean life, staying in prison until you die. Not a minimum term and then you get released.

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16 Jan 2020 12:15 #253 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The Politics Thread

Kessler wrote: I think that criminals should be locked up, but I also think they should be treated humanely. If they literally had no rights, that would mean guards could beat and kill them with impunity, is that something you would like to see? Would your opinion change if you had a relative serving time and they were killed by a prison guard?

As for the snowflake comment I'm going to ignore that as it's clear you're just on the wind up considering you are one of the biggest snowflakes on here, you and Barry The Fantasist


If you think the current crop of prison officers in most of the privatised jails would be capable of even saying boo to the prisoners ever mind abuse their human rights you clearly know less than nothing about The Prison Service as it is today.

There are only 2 groups of people currently running British prisons and that's the Muslima and the East Europeans discussions are currently underway as to whether keeping them separate or mixing them best serves the management regime.

The exception to this are the High-Security prisons such as Belmarsh currently being featured in the documentary series which thank god are still run by proper prison officers who know how to impose discipline and keep our foreign friends in order.

The whole system is a joke where we still lock people up for the likes of tv licence and council tax evasion and where we keep East Europeans at our expense filling our prisons to serve their sentences when I would rather we had them breaking rocks for a couple of years in such a tough regime that they never want to come back and infect this country ever again before returning them to where they came from where surprise surprise they are usually wanted there as well.

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16 Jan 2020 12:16 #254 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic The Politics Thread

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Kessler wrote: I think that criminals should be locked up, but I also think they should be treated humanely. If they literally had no rights, that would mean guards could beat and kill them with impunity, is that something you would like to see? Would your opinion change if you had a relative serving time and they were killed by a prison guard?

As for the snowflake comment I'm going to ignore that as it's clear you're just on the wind up considering you are one of the biggest snowflakes on here, you and Barry The Fantasist


If you think the current crop of prison officers in most of the privatised jails would be capable of even saying boo to the prisoners ever mind abuse their human rights you clearly know less than nothing about The Prison Service as it is today.

There are only 2 groups of people currently running British prisons and that's the Muslima and the East Europeans discussions are currently underway as to whether keeping them separate or mixing them best serves the management regime.

The exception to this are the High-Security prisons such as Belmarsh currently being featured in the documentary series which thank god are still run by proper prison officers who know how to impose discipline and keep our foreign friends in order.

The whole system is a joke where we still lock people up for the likes of tv licence and council tax evasion and where we keep East Europeans at our expense filling our prisons to serve their sentences when I would rather we had them breaking rocks for a couple of years in such a tough regime that they never want to come back and infect this country ever again before returning them to where they came from where surprise surprise they are usually wanted there as well.


More rubbish from Barry No Balls

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16 Jan 2020 12:20 #255 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic The Politics Thread
So you claim you served time in the past then Barry, what did they treat you like, were you given any rights despite being a prisoner?

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16 Jan 2020 12:22 #256 by markredfox73
Replied by markredfox73 on topic The Politics Thread
Never had a mention much recently about the anti brexit brigade and their chlorinated chicken scaremongoring bollocks story bla bla..this has well and truly been put to bed last week...amazingly how quiet its been since eh.

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16 Jan 2020 12:35 #257 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The Politics Thread

Kessler wrote: So you claim you served time in the past then Barry, what did they treat you like, were you given any rights despite being a prisoner?


You.ve clearly not read my reply last time you said that so i.ll leave you to look it up

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16 Jan 2020 12:35 #258 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic The Politics Thread

markredfox73 wrote: Never had a mention much recently about the anti brexit brigade and their chlorinated chicken scaremongoring bollocks story bla bla..this has well and truly been put to bed last week...amazingly how quiet its been since eh.



I think Brexit is one of the very few things me and Barry actually agree on.

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16 Jan 2020 14:24 #259 by Flatcap
Replied by Flatcap on topic The Politics Thread

thesilentone wrote: Well it looks like Labour's time in the wilderness is going to be long and cold.

In fighting, long at home on the left will see even more moderate MP's seeking a new home.

Starmer will perish on his policy for Human Rights, why should terrorists, murderers, pedophiles or prisoners have any human rights ?

Long-Bailey needs Unite and Momentum on her team, who were the brass and strings section of the GE debacle.

The Buffoon is laughing all the way to the next Parliament Term.

Since 1979, Labour has been in power once, Tony Blair's left of center politics won the day for him. What is it that the current Labour Party don't get, or are they now just of bunch of misguided activists lost to an ideology ?


Using that as a yardstick the toties have only been in power once since 1979, albeit for a lot longer.

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16 Jan 2020 14:24 #260 by Flatcap
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Fat finger again, should have typed tories.

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16 Jan 2020 16:20 #261 by thesilentone
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Perhaps if we made prisons miserable degrading places, where life is hell, they wouldn't be so keen to go, and even less likely to go back.
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16 Jan 2020 16:24 #262 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic The Politics Thread

thesilentone wrote: Perhaps if we made prisons miserable degrading places, where life is hell, they wouldn't be so keen to go, and even less likely to go back.


Yes but is there a limit to how miserable you want it to be for them? Do you believe that prisoners should be fed enough food to keep them alive rather than just let them starve to death? If so, then you believe that prisoners should have human rights.

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16 Jan 2020 16:32 #263 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic The Politics Thread

Kessler wrote:

thesilentone wrote: Perhaps if we made prisons miserable degrading places, where life is hell, they wouldn't be so keen to go, and even less likely to go back.


Yes but is there a limit to how miserable you want it to be for them? Do you believe that prisoners should be fed enough food to keep them alive rather than just let them starve to death? If so, then you believe that prisoners should have human rights.


Depends on the crime I guess.

Rapists, pedos and the likes of those who batter old people up for their pension books deserve sod all but food and water as they didn't think of the human rights of their victims.

But then there would be people like Ched Evans suffering for something he didn't do. (I nearly wrote for a crime that they didn't commit there and now I cannot get the blasted A-Team tune out of my head).
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16 Jan 2020 16:32 #264 by thesilentone
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Flatcap wrote:

thesilentone wrote: Well it looks like Labour's time in the wilderness is going to be long and cold.

In fighting, long at home on the left will see even more moderate MP's seeking a new home.

Starmer will perish on his policy for Human Rights, why should terrorists, murderers, pedophiles or prisoners have any human rights ?

Long-Bailey needs Unite and Momentum on her team, who were the brass and strings section of the GE debacle.

The Buffoon is laughing all the way to the next Parliament Term.

Since 1979, Labour has been in power once, Tony Blair's left of center politics won the day for him. What is it that the current Labour Party don't get, or are they now just of bunch of misguided activists lost to an ideology ?


Using that as a yardstick the toties have only been in power once since 1979, albeit for a lot longer.




We have had a number of GE's along the way at least 7, so you are right, and wrong :-)

Using your yardstick, twice, they were voted out in 97.

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16 Jan 2020 16:42 #265 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic The Politics Thread

munchymagic wrote:

Kessler wrote:

thesilentone wrote: Perhaps if we made prisons miserable degrading places, where life is hell, they wouldn't be so keen to go, and even less likely to go back.


Yes but is there a limit to how miserable you want it to be for them? Do you believe that prisoners should be fed enough food to keep them alive rather than just let them starve to death? If so, then you believe that prisoners should have human rights.


Depends on the crime I guess.

Rapists, pedos and the likes of those who batter old people up for their pension books deserve sod all but food and water as they didn't think of the human rights of their victims.

But then there would be people like Ched Evans suffering for something he didn't do. (I nearly wrote for a crime that they didn't commit there and now I cannot get the blasted A-Team tune out of my head).



So regardless of what they have done, you think rapists and paedophiles still deserve to be given food and water? In other words you want them to keep some rights, instead of the prisons just being allowed to starve them to death. That's the point I was making to Waltero, if you removed all of their rights they wouldn't even get food and water.

Ched Evans is a sick and vile individual.

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16 Jan 2020 17:20 #266 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The Politics Thread

Kessler wrote:

munchymagic wrote:

Kessler wrote:

thesilentone wrote: Perhaps if we made prisons miserable degrading places, where life is hell, they wouldn't be so keen to go, and even less likely to go back.


Yes but is there a limit to how miserable you want it to be for them? Do you believe that prisoners should be fed enough food to keep them alive rather than just let them starve to death? If so, then you believe that prisoners should have human rights.


Depends on the crime I guess.

Rapists, pedos and the likes of those who batter old people up for their pension books deserve sod all but food and water as they didn't think of the human rights of their victims.

But then there would be people like Ched Evans suffering for something he didn't do. (I nearly wrote for a crime that they didn't commit there and now I cannot get the blasted A-Team tune out of my head).



So regardless of what they have done, you think rapists and paedophiles still deserve to be given food and water? In other words you want them to keep some rights, instead of the prisons just being allowed to starve them to death. That's the point I was making to Waltero, if you removed all of their rights they wouldn't even get food and water.

Ched Evans is a sick and vile individual.


From that, I take it you know him personally then ?

Not only proven to be not guilty of any crime but both his supposed victim and her mother proved to have lied in court Hell if that had been me i.d of had every penny they had [ both sold stories to the press ] and donated it to Charity and the sued the arse off the govt and not just accepted the first compensation amount he was offered.

And for what it's worth from a woman I know who knew him and worked with him for 12 months said you couldn't meet a nicer or more polite lad.
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16 Jan 2020 17:53 #267 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic The Politics Thread

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Kessler wrote:

munchymagic wrote:

Kessler wrote:

thesilentone wrote: Perhaps if we made prisons miserable degrading places, where life is hell, they wouldn't be so keen to go, and even less likely to go back.


Yes but is there a limit to how miserable you want it to be for them? Do you believe that prisoners should be fed enough food to keep them alive rather than just let them starve to death? If so, then you believe that prisoners should have human rights.


Depends on the crime I guess.

Rapists, pedos and the likes of those who batter old people up for their pension books deserve sod all but food and water as they didn't think of the human rights of their victims.

But then there would be people like Ched Evans suffering for something he didn't do. (I nearly wrote for a crime that they didn't commit there and now I cannot get the blasted A-Team tune out of my head).



So regardless of what they have done, you think rapists and paedophiles still deserve to be given food and water? In other words you want them to keep some rights, instead of the prisons just being allowed to starve them to death. That's the point I was making to Waltero, if you removed all of their rights they wouldn't even get food and water.

Ched Evans is a sick and vile individual.


From that, I take it you know him personally then ?

Not only proven to be not guilty of any crime but both his supposed victim and her mother proved to have lied in court Hell if that had been me i.d of had every penny they had [ both sold stories to the press ] and donated it to Charity and the sued the arse off the govt and not just accepted the first compensation amount he was offered.

And for what it's worth from a woman I know who knew him and worked with him for 12 months said you couldn't meet a nicer or more polite lad.


Don't know him, but any man who cheats on his partner is a disgrace.

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16 Jan 2020 17:58 #268 by Tom
Replied by Tom on topic The Politics Thread
There’s proof, it has to be a woman.
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16 Jan 2020 18:01 #269 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic The Politics Thread

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Kessler wrote:

munchymagic wrote:

Kessler wrote:

thesilentone wrote: Perhaps if we made prisons miserable degrading places, where life is hell, they wouldn't be so keen to go, and even less likely to go back.


Yes but is there a limit to how miserable you want it to be for them? Do you believe that prisoners should be fed enough food to keep them alive rather than just let them starve to death? If so, then you believe that prisoners should have human rights.


Depends on the crime I guess.

Rapists, pedos and the likes of those who batter old people up for their pension books deserve sod all but food and water as they didn't think of the human rights of their victims.

But then there would be people like Ched Evans suffering for something he didn't do. (I nearly wrote for a crime that they didn't commit there and now I cannot get the blasted A-Team tune out of my head).



So regardless of what they have done, you think rapists and paedophiles still deserve to be given food and water? In other words you want them to keep some rights, instead of the prisons just being allowed to starve them to death. That's the point I was making to Waltero, if you removed all of their rights they wouldn't even get food and water.

Ched Evans is a sick and vile individual.


From that, I take it you know him personally then ?

Not only proven to be not guilty of any crime but both his supposed victim and her mother proved to have lied in court Hell if that had been me i.d of had every penny they had [ both sold stories to the press ] and donated it to Charity and the sued the arse off the govt and not just accepted the first compensation amount he was offered.

And for what it's worth from a woman I know who knew him and worked with him for 12 months said you couldn't meet a nicer or more polite lad.


Some people did actually suggest she should be prosecuted but it's not that simple

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/ched...tually-a7362451.html

“The verdict means that a particular jury was not satisfied beyond reasonable doubt of [Evan's] guilt. It is not the same as saying the woman has lied."

“The fact that the jury do not give any motive for their decision is one of the reasons why you cannot say this woman should be prosecuted,” said Mr Brown. “Because it may be that the evidence from the woman was not the deciding factor in the case.

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17 Jan 2020 04:56 #270 by Chilledsilly
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How long till Bonzo throws the fisherman under a bus ?
Answers on a postcard

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17 Jan 2020 15:46 #271 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic The Politics Thread

Chilledsilly wrote: How long till Bonzo throws the fisherman under a bus ?
Answers on a postcard


Surely you have learned in life by now that you wait until someone has done something before criticising them?

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17 Jan 2020 18:57 #272 by Chilledsilly
Replied by Chilledsilly on topic The Politics Thread
Meaning ?

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17 Jan 2020 19:56 #273 by Dentonholmersimpson
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The train has left the station.

The appetite for discussing brexit has diminished.

If you are worried about the fishermen try sucking a fishermans friend, calm you down.

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17 Jan 2020 20:29 #274 by Laffy
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Posties's union back on warpath again today.Have they not heard of email and the ever growing range of companies stealing their market.Change or die Im afraid

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17 Jan 2020 20:52 #275 by Markovitch
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thesilentone wrote: Perhaps if we made prisons miserable degrading places, where life is hell, they wouldn't be so keen to go, and even less likely to go back.


Unfortunately, every piece of meaningful research ever done has shown the better you treat prisoners the less likely they are to re-offend. Denmark has a re-offend rate a fraction of the rate of the US.

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17 Jan 2020 21:39 #276 by Dancingbear
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Dentonholmersimpson wrote: The train has left the station.

The appetite for discussing brexit has diminished.

If you are worried about the fishermen try sucking a fishermans friend, calm you down.


How the hell did Parcelpete miss this open goal?

There's only one way of life and that's your own!!!

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17 Jan 2020 21:39 #277 by Chilledsilly
Replied by Chilledsilly on topic The Politics Thread
Sorry for having an opinion....

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17 Jan 2020 22:34 #278 by whytakemypostcode
Replied by whytakemypostcode on topic The Politics Thread

Dentonholmersimpson wrote: The train has left the station.

The appetite for discussing brexit has diminished.

If you are worried about the fishermen try sucking a fishermans friend, calm you down.


Ha ha. Really Denton. It has only just begun. Enjoy the relaxing transition year, as when the 10s of thousands of job losses rack up thereafter, all the unemployed Brexit voters can suck it up, and us "remoaners" will be there every step of the way to say we told you so.

We are leaving the customs union and single market - which bit of there will be consequences do you not get?

Cue the "You lost, get over it" jibes.

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17 Jan 2020 22:39 #279 by High Street
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Wanting Brexit to fail, just to say ‘l told you so’

Utterly pathetic.

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17 Jan 2020 22:42 #280 by topstepwhinger
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Expecting it.....not wanting it to!

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17 Jan 2020 22:43 #281 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic The Politics Thread
For [censored] sake - can some people not wait and see what happens and moan if it is bad?

I for one will hold my hand up if it does go tits and admit to being wrong but as yet there is nothing really to be right or wrong about.

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17 Jan 2020 22:44 #282 by topstepwhinger
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As will I, if it all goes swimmingly.

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17 Jan 2020 22:51 #283 by Kessler
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munchymagic wrote: For [censored] sake - can some people not wait and see what happens and moan if it is bad?

I for one will hold my hand up if it does go tits and admit to being wrong but as yet there is nothing really to be right or wrong about.


I agree. We voted leave so we should leave. Calls for a second referendum before we've even done Brexit feels like it would be dismissing the referendum just because people don't like the result.

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17 Jan 2020 22:53 #284 by Dentonholmersimpson
Replied by Dentonholmersimpson on topic The Politics Thread

whytakemypostcode wrote:

Dentonholmersimpson wrote: The train has left the station.

The appetite for discussing brexit has diminished.

If you are worried about the fishermen try sucking a fishermans friend, calm you down.


Ha ha. Really Denton. It has only just begun. Enjoy the relaxing transition year, as when the 10s of thousands of job losses rack up thereafter, all the unemployed Brexit voters can suck it up, and us "remoaners" will be there every step of the way to say we told you so.

We are leaving the customs union and single market - which bit of there will be consequences do you not get?

Cue the "You lost, get over it" jibes.


We now have the upper hand over the EU, a shrinking economy.Now they finally realise we have a majority government and have somehow got to find the money we pay in to their protectionist union.

Where are they going to make up that deficit, Albania or Scotland.

Germany won't be keen on expanding the EU to nett takers as opposed to nett contributors.

When we first signed up to the European project it was in a spirit of co-operation not domination.

There are loads of countries who would rather deal with the UK alone as opposed to the EU.

WTO if we have to, bring it on.

So I agree ''You lost, get over it''.
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18 Jan 2020 03:13 #285 by Chilledsilly
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Hope your right ... but if not ..
Tell that to the fans that have lost the breadwinner

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18 Jan 2020 03:15 #286 by Chilledsilly
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Fams

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18 Jan 2020 06:21 #287 by NORTHERNSOUL
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Chilledsilly wrote: Hope your right ... but if not ..
Tell that to the fans that have lost the breadwinner


Be interested to know in what industries/sectors you think these job losses will come in?

Considering that 70% of British employers don't actively trade with the EU countries.

And please don't roll out the old favourite of car manufacturing because it's pretty well known now that a deal has already been done and the only real losers on both sides will be the ignorant shits rich enough who insist on buying a foreign car who will pay a couple of grand extra in import duty but when its rolled into the credit agreement I doubt they will even notice.

And please don't then go on the likes of what used to be Vauxhall at Ellesmere Port that plant will be closing whatever happens and its nothing whatsoever to do with Brexit that's simply being used as an excuse by its failing international ownership and i.m pretty sure there are any number of upcoming compaies who would love to take over a fully eqpt governmet backed car manufacturing plant even if it is located on Merseyside.

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18 Jan 2020 10:11 #288 by whytakemypostcode
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“Not all businesses will benefit from leaving the EU” says the chancellor of the exchequer".

Understatement of the year!

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18 Jan 2020 10:42 #289 by Markovitch
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And when he thinks of those that will benefit, who actually benefits? The people on the factory or shop floor earning £15k a year or the Board earning £300k and slating half of it offshore, tax-free?

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18 Jan 2020 10:50 #290 by Kessler
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Markovitch wrote: And when he thinks of those that will benefit, who actually benefits? The people on the factory or shop floor earning £15k a year or the Board earning £300k and slating half of it offshore, tax-free?


And those people earning £15k a year will be on the 20% tax bracket, while Amazon can make over £10 billion and pay just 2% tax on it and apparently that's fair.

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18 Jan 2020 11:00 #291 by Markovitch
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Pay people through consulting fees into offshore accounts and the tax is 0%. All the big consulting firms have their payment centres in Belgium and the Netherlands now so HMRC can't inspect their records. Twenty or thirty grand for a wee consulting gig in Kosovo, paid offshore just saved yourself £12k in tax. No bad eh? The contract between the company and the client, all legal in the UK. Couldn't do it without Boris of course.

Boris doesn't allow these loopholes for people earning £15k of course.

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18 Jan 2020 11:10 #292 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic The Politics Thread

Markovitch wrote: Pay people through consulting fees into offshore accounts and the tax is 0%. All the big consulting firms have their payment centres in Belgium and the Netherlands now so HMRC can't inspect their records. Twenty or thirty grand for a wee consulting gig in Kosovo, paid offshore just saved yourself £12k in tax. No bad eh? The contract between the company and the client, all legal in the UK. Couldn't do it without Boris of course.

Boris doesn't allow these loopholes for people earning £15k of course.


And that's where I'd say if you're not paying the proper taxes then you aren't doing business here in the UK, and if you decide you're moving your business abroad then fine but we're seizing all your offices and assets that are currently in this country and running it as a people's collective. Because the people in those jobs need an income, they shouldn't go without because the business owner is too greedy and doesn't want to pay his fair share. And before people say that's theft, no it wouldn't be if we passed a law allowing it. It would simply be the working class taking back their own wealth that the rich had previously taken from them.

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18 Jan 2020 11:23 #293 by topstepwhinger
Replied by topstepwhinger on topic The Politics Thread

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Chilledsilly wrote: Hope your right ... but if not ..
Tell that to the fans that have lost the breadwinner


Be interested to know in what industries/sectors you think these job losses will come in?

Considering that 70% of British employers don't actively trade with the EU countries.

And please don't roll out the old favourite of car manufacturing because it's pretty well known now that a deal has already been done and the only real losers on both sides will be the ignorant shits rich enough who insist on buying a foreign car who will pay a couple of grand extra in import duty but when its rolled into the credit agreement I doubt they will even notice.

And please don't then go on the likes of what used to be Vauxhall at Ellesmere Port that plant will be closing whatever happens and its nothing whatsoever to do with Brexit that's simply being used as an excuse by its failing international ownership and i.m pretty sure there are any number of upcoming compaies who would love to take over a fully eqpt governmet backed car manufacturing plant even if it is located on Merseyside.


And there you have it in a nutshell from an ardent leaver.
The 'rich will not even notice having to spend an extra 2k or so for their new BMW' - no but the rest of us will.
For BMW, substitute almost everything.
Oh, and it is well known that there are British firms queuing up to take over the Ellesmere plant........
Ohx2 can't wait to see these wonderful deals you keep talking about which have already been done.

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18 Jan 2020 11:49 #294 by Markovitch
Replied by Markovitch on topic The Politics Thread

Kessler wrote:

Markovitch wrote: Pay people through consulting fees into offshore accounts and the tax is 0%. All the big consulting firms have their payment centres in Belgium and the Netherlands now so HMRC can't inspect their records. Twenty or thirty grand for a wee consulting gig in Kosovo, paid offshore just saved yourself £12k in tax. No bad eh? The contract between the company and the client, all legal in the UK. Couldn't do it without Boris of course.

Boris doesn't allow these loopholes for people earning £15k of course.


And that's where I'd say if you're not paying the proper taxes then you aren't doing business here in the UK, and if you decide you're moving your business abroad then fine but we're seizing all your offices and assets that are currently in this country and running it as a people's collective. Because the people in those jobs need an income, they shouldn't go without because the business owner is too greedy and doesn't want to pay his fair share. And before people say that's theft, no it wouldn't be if we passed a law allowing it. It would simply be the working class taking back their own wealth that the rich had previously taken from them.


That's the whole point Kes, it's completely legal. So you are paying the proper amount of tax. And if Cameron and Johnson deliberately design a system that shields their donors from tax where is the incentive for anyone else to do the moral right thing? Or vote for them?

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18 Jan 2020 11:54 #295 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic The Politics Thread

Markovitch wrote:

Kessler wrote:

Markovitch wrote: Pay people through consulting fees into offshore accounts and the tax is 0%. All the big consulting firms have their payment centres in Belgium and the Netherlands now so HMRC can't inspect their records. Twenty or thirty grand for a wee consulting gig in Kosovo, paid offshore just saved yourself £12k in tax. No bad eh? The contract between the company and the client, all legal in the UK. Couldn't do it without Boris of course.

Boris doesn't allow these loopholes for people earning £15k of course.


And that's where I'd say if you're not paying the proper taxes then you aren't doing business here in the UK, and if you decide you're moving your business abroad then fine but we're seizing all your offices and assets that are currently in this country and running it as a people's collective. Because the people in those jobs need an income, they shouldn't go without because the business owner is too greedy and doesn't want to pay his fair share. And before people say that's theft, no it wouldn't be if we passed a law allowing it. It would simply be the working class taking back their own wealth that the rich had previously taken from them.


That's the whole point Kes, it's completely legal. So you are paying the proper amount of tax. And if Cameron and Johnson deliberately design a system that shields their donors from tax where is the incentive for anyone else to do the moral right thing? Or vote for them?


By proper amount of tax I don't mean the legal minimum. If you are making over £10 billion then you can afford to pay more than 2% tax on it. It's good if they donate money to charity but their contribution should be based on a tax system that takes account of their wealth, not rely on their whim as to whether or not they will donate money. And if billionaires can't afford more than 2% tax then we really need to examine why people on £15k are expected to pay 20%.

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18 Jan 2020 13:32 #296 by Markovitch
Replied by Markovitch on topic The Politics Thread
That's a whole philosophical argument. Laffy would argue, if he was a billionaire, he shouldn't have to pay (say) 60% because it disincentivises and he would better reinvest the money himself. I wouldn't want to pay 60%, if I was a billionaire, to the current Government because I believe they will just give it to Rupert Murdoch. The fact is though that the rich don't act consistently in a philanthropic manner and that is why the offshore industry exists.

The role of Government is to design, implement and enforce a fair system. That clearly doesn't exist at the moment and doesn't exist by design.

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18 Jan 2020 18:45 #297 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic The Politics Thread

Markovitch wrote: That's a whole philosophical argument. Laffy would argue, if he was a billionaire, he shouldn't have to pay (say) 60% because it disincentivises and he would better reinvest the money himself. I wouldn't want to pay 60%, if I was a billionaire, to the current Government because I believe they will just give it to Rupert Murdoch. The fact is though that the rich don't act consistently in a philanthropic manner and that is why the offshore industry exists.

The role of Government is to design, implement and enforce a fair system. That clearly doesn't exist at the moment and doesn't exist by design.


If you're a billionaire and you live in a country where people are homeless, you should see it as your responsibility to contribute more in taxes to help tackle that problem.

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18 Jan 2020 20:33 #298 by Chilledsilly
Replied by Chilledsilly on topic The Politics Thread
Dont worry...Mog and his mates will be able to do their deals around the world feathering their nests .... as for the rest of use ..its a gamble!
We might carry on working as we are, or we could lose our jobs and maybe even our houses ...
We'd think either Scotland Wales or Ireland would be crazy to risk cutting off trading with their nearest neighbours ( Us ! )
But it's all cushty, to risk cutting trading with our nearest neighbour's
( The EU !)
But hey , its worth the gamble so Mog and his mates can have a great life.... tell you what , best Trump doesn't get impeached because at the mo we'r reliant on a good deal with the USA...but to trade with them ,what are we going to give up ?
In the meantime , look forward to seeing Bonzo throwing the fisherman and farmers under a bus .

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18 Jan 2020 21:12 #299 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic The Politics Thread
I thought that we had agreed to wait and see what happens?

Not you though - one sleep later and you revert back to factory settings.

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18 Jan 2020 21:21 #300 by Chilledsilly
Replied by Chilledsilly on topic The Politics Thread
I thought we'd agreed to wait and see ?
What are you ... the opinion police . ?

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